Corner Crossing (is any hunter against it?)

[maxp]

In talking of aerial trespass keep in mind how many times spray pilots,bush pilots, and helicopters cross private property under 500 ft without landowner permission...they are only held liable if there are damages such as spray hitting your crop

 

[Pro953]

Ok.

I have a trip planned to Wyoming in September for a Antelope hunt. The area has decent public land but a nice parcel I would like to access. This will require me to corner cross.

If I corner cross and document my path with ON-X showing I crossed corner to corner and did not physically touch the private land, only aerial trespass.

I would setup a go fund me to cover 50% of my legal costs and fines should I be charged with anything trespass or poaching during this hunt. I would cover the other 50%. Who here is willing to put funds in a account in order to support the position they hold that corner crossing is legal and will no be enforced by criminal or civil fines or charges.

What do you think?


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[wapitibob]

What do I need you for?
The guys who corner cross back up their actions with their own money every time they cross.

 

[MattB]

Criminal actions are considered a crime against the state. So by their nature already have a named aggrieved party!! Whichever state the crime took place is and would be summarily be Prosecuting the case is the aggrived party!

I find it hard to believe that a state prosecutor in the vast majority of instances would willingly want to try to prove corner crossing was an act of criminal trespass. If in fact the only action by the accused was a public to public crossing.

Obfuscation. Same concept.

 

[slick]

Ok.

I have a trip planned to Wyoming in September for a Antelope hunt. The area has decent public land but a nice parcel I would like to access. This will require me to corner cross.

If I corner cross and document my path with ON-X showing I crossed corner to corner and did not physically touch the private land, only aerial trespass.

I would setup a go fund me to cover 50% of my legal costs and fines should I be charged with anything trespass or poaching during this hunt. I would cover the other 50%. Who here is willing to put funds in a account in order to support the position they hold that corner crossing is legal and will no be enforced by criminal or civil fines or charges.

What do you think?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is this serious? Or a joke? A Go Fund Me??

 

[BluetickID]

After watching this thread for the better part of a week, I'd like to contribute. I've lived in Idaho most of my life, and used public land every year, actually almost every week for recreation and work. There is no doubt that our lands are becoming busier daily. It's good to see so many people interested in camping, hiking, fishing, snowshoeing, hunting, etc. But it's not without some major challenges. Fishing is tougher, even in remote areas. Hunting is much more difficult than it used to be. There aren't many 'secluded' places anymore.
I think that the frustration over corner crossing is just one way that taxpayers are upset over lack of access to property that is financed by them. I would not buy property that I wasn't guaranteed access to, yet we have hundreds of thousands of acres across the West that are inaccessible due to private lands restricting access points. Are "greedy" landowners to blame? Yes, in some situations. Poor planning by public officials is another root cause. But in this case, a lack of action by state agencies and an ineffective legal system is making people crazy. Why can't a decision just be made? Because judges and prosecutors are hamstrung by re-election stress. Damned if they do, Damned if they dont. I'm not really optimistic that there's an end in sight, but I am hoping that eventually we can gain more access to landlocked and "checkerboarded" public land. If for no other reason than to relieve the pressure that our current accessible lands are enduring.

 

[Praxeus]

If accessibility is truly the problem, then the culprit should be those agencies that limit trail and road development to reach the spots most coveted. Why not lobby and complain to them? Afterall, you are actually paying for that, right?

 

[FlyGuy]

The basis for this conversation is basically "if I want it, I should be able to have it". As a landowner that actually borders public land am I to blame for wanting my property to be private? This argument presupposes that someone who actually sacrificed to have something that everyone wants, is to blame. Kind of sounds like the ultra liberal left wingers from Washington.

If accessibility is truly the problem, then the culprit should be those agencies that limit trail and road development to reach the spots most coveted. Why not lobby and complain to them? Afterall, you are actually paying for that, right? To blame a landowner for closing off private property is a purely subjective and nonsensical complaint. In other words, the property corners I don't want to cross are fine, its just the ones we/ I want. Would you allow a total stranger to drive your car, use your toys, play in your backyard just because they want to? Of course not. Why? Because those are 'mine' and we have the paperwork to prove ownership.

Old school remedies to address this issue would have been : use horses/ mules, get in shape to hike and backpack, do whatever legal means possible to attain permission and so forth. IMO this is just another example of not being able to get where we want and self-justifying the means to have it anyway. And- if our wishes are refused, its someone else's fault.

Man, I don’t think you understand what we are talking about? Maybe I read your post wrong, but No one here is saying we should be allowed to hunt on your land or drive your car or play with any of your toys. We are NOT saying that we should be granted access to public land by crossing through your property that borders it. We Simply want to legally access public to public checkerboard squares of land.





You can’t cheat the mountain

 

[Praxeus]

Man, I don’t think you understand what we are talking about? Maybe I read your post wrong, but No one here is saying we should be allowed to hunt on your land or drive your car or play with any of your toys. We are NOT saying that we should be granted access to public land by crossing through your property that borders it. We Simply want to legally access public to public checkerboard squares of land.



Flyguy....I apologize for the volumous response. As a private property owner, Im kinda jumpy. I edited my original post to reflect the subject

 

[87TT]

They already force "landowners" to allow easements to the beaches. What makes public land any different. I do not want to trespass and hunt on private property but foot traffic at a corner should be fine and allowed., Any land owner that is against access to public land is just being greedy and selfish and if they say different they are not being truthful. It should be no different than going by private land on a road that runs through. No one would call the law on a neighbor that just stepped on the edge of their property or stepped over the corner. A mandatory corner easement should be created and made law to stop all this.

 

[Trial153]

I dont want any acess to the private property. I want to acess public property from public property. I am not sure how that turns me into a flaming Washington liberal but if that diatribe floats your boat have at it.

 

[Vaultman]

There are so many responses I have here to other posts.... and though I feel like I am in the minority, I am still compelled to reply... I guess the short of it is that I stand for private property rights.

It is private land, and whether the soil is touched or not, part of the persons body is over the private land. That right, title and interest contained in a deed includes the 'air' above the corner (maybe not to the sky, but at least above what you and I can step over).

Secondly... if touching the ground is the basis of it not being illegal.... scenario: there is public access to the public property from another way, and I see a legal elk over there... then can I shoot over the corner when the elk is on the kiity-corner property? Does a bullet (or arrow) constitute corner crossing? (It is not touching the ground on private property).

Third (and quite possibly the MOST important)... just because something shows to be a 4 way corner on a 7.5 minute quad map or some other F&G map (or even worse, OnX / Google Earth) does not mean that those corners meet. The hunter needs to be sure that it is actually a common corner. Only one way to do that... read the deed. And you may need to read all 4 of the deeds (at least 2).

Fourth... We all think of a fence at a corner, which most of us can climb over. But the private owner has the right to build a concrete wall at his corner as well. That wall can go up to the property line. That wall can be as tall as he plausibly wants. The footing should be on his private property but even for the construction of said wall, he can be on the adjoining property because he is part of the public that does have right to that land. That wall removes your ability to physically corner cross, AND that wall is completely on private property. If that wall that is entirely on his property would impede you from corner crossing? How can someone say that not touching the ground is what allows corner crossing? Is it just because the private owner has not built a wall and his kitty-corner neighbor hasn't built a wall?

 

[FLAK]

I'm 100% OK with it. Public land is public land.
If anyone has a problem with me invading 6" of their air space
then they've got bigger issues they need to deal with.

 

[87TT]

There are so many responses I have here to other posts.... and though I feel like I am in the minority, I am still compelled to reply... I guess the short of it is that I stand for private property rights.

It is private land, and whether the soil is touched or not, part of the persons body is over the private land. That right, title and interest contained in a deed includes the 'air' above the corner (maybe not to the sky, but at least above what you and I can step over).

Secondly... if touching the ground is the basis of it not being illegal.... scenario: there is public access to the public property from another way, and I see a legal elk over there... then can I shoot over the corner when the elk is on the kiity-corner property? Does a bullet (or arrow) constitute corner crossing? (It is not touching the ground on private property).

Third (and quite possibly the MOST important)... just because something shows to be a 4 way corner on a 7.5 minute quad map or some other F&G map (or even worse, OnX / Google Earth) does not mean that those corners meet. The hunter needs to be sure that it is actually a common corner. Only one way to do that... read the deed. And you may need to read all 4 of the deeds (at least 2).

Fourth... We all think of a fence at a corner, which most of us can climb over. But the private owner has the right to build a concrete wall at his corner as well. That wall can go up to the property line. That wall can be as tall as he plausibly wants. The footing should be on his private property but even for the construction of said wall, he can be on the adjoining property because he is part of the public that does have right to that land. That wall removes your ability to physically corner cross, AND that wall is completely on private property. If that wall that is entirely on his property would impede you from corner crossing? How can someone say that not touching the ground is what allows corner crossing? Is it just because the private owner has not built a wall and his kitty-corner neighbor hasn't built a wall?

View attachment 111339

I guess I bring my ladder.

 

[FlyGuy]

There are so many responses I have here to other posts.... and though I feel like I am in the minority, I am still compelled to reply... I guess the short of it is that I stand for private property rights.

It is private land, and whether the soil is touched or not, part of the persons body is over the private land. That right, title and interest contained in a deed includes the 'air' above the corner (maybe not to the sky, but at least above what you and I can step over).

Secondly... if touching the ground is the basis of it not being illegal.... scenario: there is public access to the public property from another way, and I see a legal elk over there... then can I shoot over the corner when the elk is on the kiity-corner property? Does a bullet (or arrow) constitute corner crossing? (It is not touching the ground on private property).

Third (and quite possibly the MOST important)... just because something shows to be a 4 way corner on a 7.5 minute quad map or some other F&G map (or even worse, OnX / Google Earth) does not mean that those corners meet. The hunter needs to be sure that it is actually a common corner. Only one way to do that... read the deed. And you may need to read all 4 of the deeds (at least 2).

Fourth... We all think of a fence at a corner, which most of us can climb over. But the private owner has the right to build a concrete wall at his corner as well. That wall can go up to the property line. That wall can be as tall as he plausibly wants. The footing should be on his private property but even for the construction of said wall, he can be on the adjoining property because he is part of the public that does have right to that land. That wall removes your ability to physically corner cross, AND that wall is completely on private property. If that wall that is entirely on his property would impede you from corner crossing? How can someone say that not touching the ground is what allows corner crossing? Is it just because the private owner has not built a wall and his kitty-corner neighbor hasn't built a wall?

View attachment 111339

I’m not aware of any construction that is allowed ON the actual property line? Maybe it’s legal, but seems there is always a set-back of some type?

Regardless, Anyone who built a concrete wall for the sole purpose of preventing the public from accessing public land that everyone else pays for is a complete dirt-bag. That would prove that the only reason for this stupidity is the greed of having that access to themselves and no one else, even though they don’t own it.




You can’t cheat the mountain

 

[BuzzH]

I’m not aware of any construction that is allowed ON the actual property line? Maybe it’s legal, but seems there is always a set-back of some type?

Regardless, Anyone who built a concrete wall for the sole purpose of preventing the public from accessing public land that everyone else pays for is a complete dirt-bag. That would prove that the only reason for this stupidity is the greed of having that access to themselves and no one else, even though they don’t own it.




You can’t cheat the mountain

I agree, there are setback regulations for a reason...like the one described by vaultman.

Seems like the "property rights" argument is a one way street and that you don't have to consider either the rights of the publics property rights, or the rights of adjacent landowners.

IMO, your "rights" end where they infringe on mine...building a concrete wall right on a surveyed corner, absolutely is an infringement of others rights.

 

[Rich M]

A fence on a corner isn't an infringement Buzz. No matter how many times you say it. You see it every day in your normal everyday existence.

The offset I need for the fence around my yard is like 8 or 10 inches - yet somehow all the fences touch. Just like barbed wire fences do in cattle country. Yet I still OWN the 8 or 10 inches on the other side of the fence - it isn't an easement. Go figure.

What is the offset for barbed wire fences? - same thing as a wall.

What about the socialistic CA guy who wants every land owner to have to allow everyone to use their land because they are all bad? How does he fit into all of this?

 

[rob86jeep]

I live in a newer neighborhood and my neighbor just found out that the corner of his property (his house is on the corner) has an easement. He found this out when they came and built a sidewalk running across a small corner of his property. If this can happen in a residential area, why not in a rural area? Nobody wants to allow trespassing, we just want access to public land whether that's from roads or maybe corner easements. I believe anybody who disagrees with the government trying to provide people access to public land has ulterior motives...

 

[BuzzH]

A fence on a corner isn't an infringement Buzz. No matter how many times you say it. You see it every day in your normal everyday existence.

The offset I need for the fence around my yard is like 8 or 10 inches - yet somehow all the fences touch. Just like barbed wire fences do in cattle country. Yet I still OWN the 8 or 10 inches on the other side of the fence - it isn't an easement. Go figure.

What is the offset for barbed wire fences? - same thing as a wall.

What about the socialistic CA guy who wants every land owner to have to allow everyone to use their land because they are all bad? How does he fit into all of this?

Building a stile over a fence corner isn't an infringement either....

 

[RockinU]

If accessibility is truly the problem, then the culprit should be those agencies that limit trail and road development to reach the spots most coveted. Why not lobby and complain to them? Afterall, you are actually paying for that, right?

I'm lost on how this fits. Agencies and trails have nothing to do with corner crossing. Denying access to public land over a pin prick of land demonstrates a land owner who just desires to limit access to public land. An easement of that magnitude would do nothing to diminish their use or enjoyment of their own land, the only reason for them to do it is to prevent others accessing what they would rather keep for themselves. I am a landowner, and while my acreage isn't vast by any measure, it's enough to matter, and I have what is called a give and take line with one of my neighbors with whom our border is in a wash out. Fence maintenance would be difficult if we put it exactly on the line...so the fence meanders a bit, I don't know which one of us comes out ahead in the deal, but it doesn't matter because it's so small. It's silly to be that concerned with every inch...