Copper/Lead on public land.

[RockAndSage]

This is exactly why our side must always stay on the offensive with legislation, rule making, and with the court system - when we sit back and just let bans occur on salami-slice, "non controversial", "fringe" issues, the left will always keep finding ways to restrict guns, every way they can. It's hard for them to do that when we're on the offense, especially legislatively and with legal precedents working their way through the courts.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Death by pieces and any excuse will do.

 

[FLATHEAD]

My earlier comment was purely based around the conspiracy idea that the point of this ban is to make ammo more expensive. It may be true that it is more expensive for some folks, but it seems far fetched that would be a reason why someone would push for a ban like this. Agree or not, but it makes sense to me that there are people who feel so strongly about protecting vulnerable species that they take it further than I would .

I'm genuinely curious where the line is drawn for folks here.Though I might regret it : ) I don't spend my time researching this stuff, but it appears to be settled science that lead in bullets was largely to blame for deaths of the Cali condor. Perhaps that's not true.

So my question is do you think the gov should ban hunting with lead in bullets in areas where condors eat the carcasses and it kills them or is it hands off my lead bullets regardless of the science and screw those birds?

Personally I've never seen a condor other than in a zoo and don't spend any time in California, but I feel like it might be the role of government to make rules to protect a vulnerable species in a situation like this.

I'm wrong a lot though and am open to other ideas and answerss to this question and am really just curious where people stand on this.



Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

The past 2 years proves our Government is out of control.
And "settled science" is whatever they say it is.
Because they say so.
And if you dont agree, then you are obviously a right wing radical.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I told you so. If they win here, they will keep going. Land and expand. Inch by inch. Step by step.

 

[Mike Islander]

It's always, always, always, a step toward disarmament. Look what they are willing to do while we still have our guns. Think of what they have planned if they can take them away.

 

[jimh406]

Maybe I'm wrong, from what I understand, wildlife refuges are primarily archery and shotgun hunting areas. Like everywhere else they already require non-lead ammo for waterfowl, right? It would be interesting to know how many wildlife refuges even allow rifle hunting, and how many fisherman will be affected.

This particular set of rules probably won't have a noticeable impact on wildlife. Seems like laying groundwork for future rules for all public lands, and that's the real concern.

 

[Fordguy]

It will be interesting on how long it will take them to ban lead on all federal land. Not sure what you do with muzzel loaders where no sabots are allowed.

Patched TSS round balls... 10$ a shot

 

[roadrunner]

Rapid sky-falling climate change has a higher impact than lead (core) ammo does.

 

[BugleMeTimber]

Maybe I'm wrong, from what I understand, wildlife refuges are primarily archery and shotgun hunting areas. Like everywhere else they already require non-lead ammo for waterfowl, right? It would be interesting to know how many wildlife refuges even allow rifle hunting, and how many fisherman will be affected.

This particular set of rules probably won't have a noticeable impact on wildlife. Seems like laying groundwork for future rules for all public lands, and that's the real concern.

CMR Refuge…..General Deer, Limied Entry Elk Rifle Permits, Elk B tags and Sheep Permits. That’s a lot of rifle hunters in one refuge.

 

[Mosby]

It seems hilarious to me that someone would argue that, "it's not about lead bullets" when it clearly is about exactly that. The argument that the Man is just trying to make hunting more expensive is ridiculous. Monolithic non lead aren't significantly more expensive and in some cases are less expensive than high bc bullets. I also can't fathom a situation where the cost of the ammo is a major contribution to the overall cost of a hunt.
My conspiracy theory/political spin spidey sense is tingling and I hope all of yours is too.


Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

I think the article was referencing a broader spectrum of ammo to include shotgun ammo and not just bullets and lead alternatives like bismuth are significantly more expensive than lead shot. Paying $400 for a case. of shotgun ammo or $45 a box sucks and significantly adds to my cost for a season when I can get a case of lead ammunition for $150. Then add that to the significant increases in the price of fuel, food, licenses, tags, hotels etc., that have occurred in the last 2 years and you have a major impact on the overall cost of a hunting season....at least to me. For people who don't hunt or shoot a lot....I guess it doesn't matter either way.

 

[displacedtexan]

My earlier comment was purely based around the conspiracy idea that the point of this ban is to make ammo more expensive. It may be true that it is more expensive for some folks, but it seems far fetched that would be a reason why someone would push for a ban like this. Agree or not, but it makes sense to me that there are people who feel so strongly about protecting vulnerable species that they take it further than I would .

I'm genuinely curious where the line is drawn for folks here.Though I might regret it : ) I don't spend my time researching this stuff, but it appears to be settled science that lead in bullets was largely to blame for deaths of the Cali condor. Perhaps that's not true.

So my question is do you think the gov should ban hunting with lead in bullets in areas where condors eat the carcasses and it kills them or is it hands off my lead bullets regardless of the science and screw those birds?

Personally I've never seen a condor other than in a zoo and don't spend any time in California, but I feel like it might be the role of government to make rules to protect a vulnerable species in a situation like this.

I'm wrong a lot though and am open to other ideas and answerss to this question and am really just curious where people stand on this.



Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

I know a wildlife biologist who's career has been with birds (30 plus years)...

Because of Condors and eagles he's VERY opposed to hunting with lead.

Personally he's very pro gun/conservative. Shoots a lot of lead at paper and steel.

 

[Loo.wii]

This is exactly why our side must always stay on the offensive with legislation, rule making, and with the court system - when we sit back and just let bans occur on salami-slice, "non controversial", "fringe" issues, the left will always keep finding ways to restrict guns, every way they can. It's hard for them to do that when we're on the offense, especially legislatively and with legal precedents working their way through the courts.

Our side ?

 

[Loo.wii]

They're not liberals they're communists

Maybe I’m retarded but what is communism ?

And how are these people that?

Isn’t public land communist ?

 

[Loo.wii]

I know a wildlife biologist who's career has been with birds (30 plus years)...

Because of Condors and eagles he's VERY opposed to hunting with lead.

Personally he's very pro gun/conservative. Shoots a lot of lead at paper and steel.

Dagum communist!!!

I’m being sarcastic

 

[gearguywb]

It seems hilarious to me that someone would argue that, "it's not about lead bullets" when it clearly is about exactly that. The argument that the Man is just trying to make hunting more expensive is ridiculous. Monolithic non lead aren't significantly more expensive and in some cases are less expensive than high bc bullets. I also can't fathom a situation where the cost of the ammo is a major contribution to the overall cost of a hunt.
My conspiracy theory/political spin spidey sense is tingling and I hope all of yours is too.


Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

While copper bullets may not add significantly to the price of a hunt, you probably missed the part about "recreational shooting".

If you go onto public land to do a bit of handgun practice and are forced to use "non-lead", the cost is significantly more.

More to the point....why? Has there been some amount of identifiable/quantifiable harm to wildlife in these areas by lead left from bullets? If the goal is protection of wildlife, then share the research.

 

[taskswap]

Typical Fox article. Rage-inducing headline, almost no actual facts, and both links in the lede and intro about the ruling just lead to their own list of more click-bait articles about Biden. My favorite part was the subheading "Biden admin views hunters as 'an obstacle,' conservation expert tells Fox News Digital" while never mentioning this "expert's" credentials or even their name anywhere in the article.

What upsets me is that there IS something to be upset about here - and Fox TOTALLY missed the crucial detail. The Biden Administration did very little here. The Center for Biological Diversity sued the US FWS using the Trump administration's access expansion as the cause of harm. The CBD is the real enemy to the kind of sports activities we care about. They are on a TEAR with lawsuits all over the place - the Feds get hit at least a few times a year but they're not the only target. They've filed EIGHT lawsuits JUST in 2023 so far:

Endangered Species Act and Other Wildlife Protection Statutes Archives - Climate Change Litigation

climatecasechart.com

The Biden Administration does plenty of factual things to be annoyed about. But the longer groups like this go on unnoticed, the more they win. This Fox News article was exactly what they want to see.

Edit: This Safari Club article on the same topic is a good read for anyone that wants a little more info about this particular ruling:

Safari Club International Opposes Fish and Wildlife Service Settlement that Will Pay Attorneys Fees for Bogus Lawsuit - Safari Club

The Center for Biological Diversity (“CBD”) and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (“FWS”) have achieved a settlement in principle regarding CBD’s lawsuit

safariclub.org

 

[FLATHEAD]

I no longer trust the "Experts".

 

[Loo.wii]

Typical Fox article. Rage-inducing headline, almost no actual facts, and both links in the lede and intro about the ruling just lead to their own list of more click-bait articles about Biden. My favorite part was the subheading "Biden admin views hunters as 'an obstacle,' conservation expert tells Fox News Digital" while never mentioning this "expert's" credentials or even their name anywhere in the article.

What upsets me is that there IS something to be upset about here - and Fox TOTALLY missed the crucial detail. The Biden Administration did very little here. The Center for Biological Diversity sued the US FWS using the Trump administration's access expansion as the cause of harm. The CBD is the real enemy to the kind of sports activities we care about. They are on a TEAR with lawsuits all over the place - the Feds get hit at least a few times a year but they're not the only target. They've filed EIGHT lawsuits JUST in 2023 so far:

Endangered Species Act and Other Wildlife Protection Statutes Archives - Climate Change Litigation

climatecasechart.com

The Biden Administration does plenty of factual things to be annoyed about. But the longer groups like this go on unnoticed, the more they win. This Fox News article was exactly what they want to see.

Edit: This Safari Club article on the same topic is a good read for anyone that wants a little more info about this particular ruling:

Safari Club International Opposes Fish and Wildlife Service Settlement that Will Pay Attorneys Fees for Bogus Lawsuit - Safari Club

The Center for Biological Diversity (“CBD”) and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (“FWS”) have achieved a settlement in principle regarding CBD’s lawsuit

safariclub.org

This is the most well informed comment I’ve ever seen on one of these somewhat political threads.

 

[Crowmangler]

Maybe I’m retarded but what is communism ?

And how are these people that?

Isn’t public land communist ?

OK Fed

 

[jimh406]

Typical Fox article.

Please post a link to the article you like about this topic from your preferred media outlets.