Copper bullets

[backcountry_hunter]

The 180 is probably too heavy.

With monos velocity is your friend! go lighter and faster if you want bang flops! also aim for bone.

if the 180 is too heavy for elk out of a 300 inside of 400 what’s it good for? Factory recommendation is typically 1800fps on most monos now. I’d rather not drop below 2200 personally but even then.... if I have to start dropping in weight to get it to perform and in turn giving up BC/SD in a bullet what’s the point? When there’s proven 180s that aren’t monos that work like they should.

bottom line Those 3 bullets failed no matter how you draw it up. I’ve had more than that not fail. Out of several different calibers. It’s nice to have options. I’ll likelyshoot more critters with monos but I certainly won’t shoot them always

 

[Tmac]

In that caliber 180's right @ 3000fps give or take..... both with those three and the successes I've had. I've also had a deer I could fit a closed fist into with quite literally the next chronologically loaded round and almost identical placement.

They should have worked fine, but bullets are funny things.

 

[Tmac]

if the 180 is too heavy for elk out of a 300 inside of 400 what’s it good for? Factory recommendation is typically 1800fps on most monos now. I’d rather not drop below 2200 personally but even then.... if I have to start dropping in weight to get it to perform and in turn giving up BC/SD in a bullet what’s the point? When there’s proven 180s that aren’t monos that work like they should.

bottom line Those 3 bullets failed no matter how you draw it up. I’ve had more than that not fail. Out of several different calibers. It’s nice to have options. I’ll likelyshoot more critters with monos but I certainly won’t shoot them always

Keep in mind SD is only one data point. As a lead based bullet sheds weight, it’s SD drops, quickly. A lighter mono starts with a lower SD, yet retains 90%+ weight and often will retain a higher effective SD through out the terminal phase. That’s why I drop down in weight, unless hunting large game. That said, you should not have experienced the issues you did given the parameters you shared.

You might like the 175 LRX better, if you like heavier bullets, when you decide you want a mono. Or a 150 - 168 TTSX. I’ve used LRX’s on multiple 100lb - 135lb ish WT does out of a 270, 129 gr. Meat shots, so avoided the shoulder, no bang flops, but all bang, then 10-25’ of movement, then drops. Good luck

 

[wildwilderness]

if the 180 is too heavy for elk out of a 300 inside of 400 what’s it good for? Factory recommendation is typically 1800fps on most monos now. I’d rather not drop below 2200 personally but even then.... if I have to start dropping in weight to get it to perform and in turn giving up BC/SD in a bullet what’s the point? When there’s proven 180s that aren’t monos that work like they should.

bottom line Those 3 bullets failed no matter how you draw it up. I’ve had more than that not fail. Out of several different calibers. It’s nice to have options. I’ll likelyshoot more critters with monos but I certainly won’t shoot them always

I’m sure you realize many things are done for sales and marketing. Based on your experience I would guess the 180 is for serious penetration, and bone breaking performance, Think Big bovines and Africa. Monos never excel at the BC game, but Barnes has to play to stay relevant in the market. So some options will be offered that realistically I would never recommend. Like mentioned the LRX line is softer and will expand more.

try the Hammer if you want more traditional performance of bang flop. They shed the petals transferring more energy increasing wound channels.

 

[ReddingArcher]

I think another thing to note is for years most of us have been taught to aim right behind the shoulder, so for me personally I have stuck to that even with monos. I need to get better at putting the bullet through the shoulders and breaking the animals down. Anyone else aim center of shoulder to drop them where they stand?

 

[AK_Skeeter]

I switched from partitions about ten years ago.
.270 TTSX 130gr with IMR4350
.300 H&H TTSX 180gr with IMR4831
Very happy with the performance on a wide range of game.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

Appreciate everyone's insight, however the last several responses (minus the very last one) reiterate my point as to why the sun doesn't rise and fall with the advent of mono's.

Coppers have a place, and are an answer...... sometimes, but I don't believe they are the answer to a problem that doesn't really exist. The moment I have to start "shooting lighter for caliber" or "aim for bone instead of vitals" or "your velocity needs to be in a much tighter window" all to get the projectile to perform correctly when it doesn't make an animal any more "dead" I start to lose interest. The more variables I have to account for the less likely I am to stick with something. The older I get the less tolerance I have for tinkering. There are some almost certainties in hunting/shooting..... tikka's, swfa scopes and accubonds to name a few (although ELDM's have piqued my interest lately).

If I was a one rifle owner and that one rifle was a 270..... I think I'd probably shoot a 130 ttsx much of the time. But since I'm not, it's great to have other options, although I do love that combo.

The LRX does have my attention but I have so many others waiting to be seated and shot I haven't had the time or ambition to mess with them yet.

 

[brsnow]

.308 168 ttsx is actually a LRX opens to 1600, 7mm-08 139 LRX opens to 1400, 6.5 CM 127 LRX opens to 1600, .270 129 LRX, never asked, would guess it opens up around 1600 as well. These are what I shoot very happy with them.

 

[OXN939]

The moment I have to start "shooting lighter for caliber" or "aim for bone instead of vitals" or "your velocity needs to be in a much tighter window" all to get the projectile to perform correctly when it doesn't make an animal any more "dead" I start to lose interest.

I think most of those adages are red herrings that unnecessarily complicate the situation. My point of aim with monos is identical to what I've been using my whole life, and I've had great performance so far on Whitetail, Blacktail, Caribou, Pronghorn and Nilgai. "Aiming for bone" is a silly concept, anyway- bone structure is a relatively tiny target that can't be directly seen. If you put your shot solidly through any part of the vitals, you'll be fine.

Re: velocity, monos don't require a tighter window. They just need to be kept above a reasonable level, which includes the vast majority of shots taken on big game. Really, the only situation where you'd run into velocity issues would be trying to stretch the legs of a less powerful caliber farther than they should be. If someone feels like they absolutely must take half mile shots on elk with their 7mm-08, they should stick with lead. If you're in the 95% of hunters who don't need to shoot past 400, though, there is really not any greater investment of thought required for the use of monos than for lead ammo; just verify your dope and set your POA directly in the vitals.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

I've had very good luck with all copper.
I keep impact velocity > 2200 fps never had an issue.
They don't open well at lower velocities.
I tested down to 1800 fps, through denem jeans (folded & then folded over a 2x4 into 2.5 gallon water jugs, and they did open as advertised but barely. 1800 barely opened. Between 2000-2100 fps one opened nicely and the other barely opened similar to the 1800 fps sample.
I did get consistent opening > 2100 fps. I added an extra 100 fps as a personal safety net.
FWIW.

 

[wyojdubya]

I switched to copper for the same reason as brsnow--young kids. Four years and six animals later, I haven't experienced a problem (knock on wood). I've handloaded TTSX for my 308 and used the factory LRX in my 270. Before the switch, I mostly shot partitions and accubonds with similar results.

 

[Trogon]

165TTSX at short barrel 308 velocities have worked superb for my deer and elk hunting needs. No intention of changing. It helps they group insanely well. If given the opportunity I will aim straight up from the front leg, gives me some leeway on either side. If I go straight through the shoulder blade Im happy.

 

[Muley Buck]

Has anybody switched to copper and regretted it, or have had a pattern of bad experiences? Curious.

I have been forced to switch to copper due to living and hunting in California, I regret living in California...

Seriously though, If you do switch to copper, I recommend going with a frangible bullet.

 

[HydeParkHunter]

I have been forced to switch to copper due to living and hunting in California, I regret living in California...

Seriously though, If you do switch to copper, I recommend going with a frangible bullet.

Do you have any examples of manufacturers that produce those? I do not hand load, at least not yet.

 

[Muley Buck]

Do you have any examples of manufacturers that produce those? I do not hand load, at least not yet.

Depends on what cartridge you are shooting but here are a sime off the top of my head. It is limiting in selection, I know. DRT is one I've been very curious about but haven't used yet.
I have used the Lehigh copper in my handloads and it has worked great so far.

DRT Ammo – Dynamic Research Technologies

drtammo.com

https://www.grindhardammo.com/custom/AMMO-HUNTING

If you don't handload my first choice would be to get a hold of Unknown Munitions and have Jake load you up some CEB's or Hammer's. This would probably be your best bet.

 

[CentralFLMike]

I switched to Barnes TTSX in 5 calibers about 6 years ago. I've never experienced the "penciling" effect; every bullet entered almost seamlessly and the exit was a quarter sized hole with nothing but total devastation between. Not everything dropped in it's tracks, but not every bullet was perfectly placed. I've only recovered one projectile and it was a perfectly expanded X. In my experience, Barnes bullets are a death-ray on deer!