Consistent flyers in 5-round group

[Q_Sertorius]

The only issue with this is that the groups weren't 3 stacked shots and then two fliers, the first two shots stacked, then the third shot was up to the left, then the 4th shot stacked again, and then the 5th shot went low left.

If the first three had stacked and then 4 and 5 were off I would lean more towards barrel heat up, shooter fatigue, or some other issue but since the 3rd shot was off and then the 4th landed back in the stack thats why I had been leaning towards flinch or scope issue.

Oh, I misunderstood your OP. The devil take that rifle then. I would not sink another round or dime into that rifle.

 

[Formidilosus]

Firing four to ten 3-shot groups at the same target with 10-15 minute breaks every three shots, should answer that question. Obviously, if your first 3-shot group measures 2-4 MOA, you can stop right there! Or you can stop as soon as it becomes clear that your rifle’s cone of fire isn’t acceptable to you.

That’s not how barrel stress works. A non stress relieved barrel will “walk”. That is: it will walk shot in a line away from center, and it will keep walking them in that line as it heats up until it reaches the relaxed state. Then as it cools it will walk the shot back down the same line.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

That’s not how barrel stress works. A non stress relieved barrel will “walk”. That is: it will walk shot in a line away from center, and it will keep walking them in that line as it heats up until it reaches the relaxed state. Then as it cools it will walk the shot back down the same line.

Thanks! Always good to learn something new!

 

[49ereric]

All I every worried about is where the first shot hits with a cold barrel.

 

[Choupique]

Always good to learn something new!

Oh boy, a chance use my college knowledge

Think about a barrel that isnt properly stress relieved as having a piece of metal inside of it that doesnt fit right in the space its in. Its pushing on the metal around it. As it heats up, that one spot grows at a different rate than the rest of the barrel, and the barrel gets crooked. Hotter it gets, more crooked it gets. Impacts "walk" on target as it gets progressively more crooked. As it cools off, it works itself back to straight.

A barrels cross section has to be symmetrical not only in shape but in internal grain structure. Cutting/beating/welding/heating metal introduces internal irregularities in the grain which creates internal stress. Molecules are pushing on the molucules next to themd at inconsistent amounts. Stress relieving a barrel gets all those irregularities out of the steel, aligns the grain structure, And ensures that it expands and contracts uniformly and has uniform hardness/stiffness/toughness throughout its entire length.

 

[DeepMauka]

Do they always walk vertical or diagonal vertical line, or is it strait horizontal as well?

 

[Formidilosus]

Do they always walk vertical or diagonal vertical line, or is it strait horizontal as well?

Can be in any direction. The main thing is that groups getting larger- isn’t from heat and stress in the barrel.

 

[philcox]

Yes.

Which app?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Which app?

I think it can be done with Ballistic-X, but maybe only with the Toolkit? You still have to start with one image, but you can set additional POA's and impacts for each. I'm not certain whether paying for the toolkit would make it easier/possible to aggregate groups or not. I find Ballistic-X very intuitive - up to the point where I tried to aggregate three groups on the same target... now I cannot figure it out.

 

[longrangelead]

if it's not bedded, bed it and go from there.

 

[AM_Hunter]

if it's not bedded, bed it and go from there.

Its in a chassis, do you think it still needs to be bedded? I was always under the impression chassis dont need bedding

 

[wind gypsy]

Its in a chassis, do you think it still needs to be bedded? I was always under the impression chassis dont need bedding

Can still be a thing with chassis but I'd think it'd be less likely to be an issue of stresses induced unless the chassis/action are machined lousy but could be a factor. Seems like chassis bedding is more often to prevent shifting zero from impacts/vibration than inability to shoot a tight group but thats just what I've gathered from the internets. Be interested on what @longrangelead thinks

 

[longrangelead]

Its in a chassis, do you think it still needs to be bedded? I was always under the impression chassis dont need bedding

Can still be a thing with chassis but I'd think it'd be less likely to be an issue of stresses induced unless the chassis/action are machined lousy but could be a factor. Seems like chassis bedding is more often to prevent shifting zero from impacts/vibration than inability to shoot a tight group but thats just what I've gathered from the internets. Be interested on what @longrangelead thinks

Bedding done right never makes it worse. Not every chassis is better after bedding but it's worth trying.

@wind gypsy his flier issue could be considered a wandering zero issue even though it's one here and one there. If it's mechanical and not the scope, it needs to be addressed the same Imo.

 

[Choupique]

The more I think about this the more I think OP just has an old fashioned flinch problem or ammo problem.

 

[AM_Hunter]

The more I think about this the more I think OP just has an old fashioned flinch problem or ammo problem.

Very well could be a flinch issue, could be ammo too just considered it wasnt since it was consistently throwing shots 3 and 5. Ill see what happens when I test the next loads I have.

 

[Choupique]

Yea mechanically I dont see how a scope or bolt action rifle could consistently throw a flier in that manner. Zero moving around, sure. Normal dispersion, sure, but you should see roughly uniform distribution with ~ 90% of the rounds and if your groups consistently look like what you posted, that doesnt look like normal dispersion to me.

Consistently throwing a random high or low seems most likely operator error to me. Ammo could do that but I dont think I've ever seen factory loaded centerfire ammo behave that way. Rimfire, yep, all the time.