Concerning rut trends, is the rut changing?

[sundance1]

Many variables are part of the equation when it comes to the rut. If it is totally predicated off of the angle of the sun to their eye, I can debunk that every single year with dozens of cows. Weather. pressure, moon phase, all affect it to some degree. Having healthy herds with some herd bulls around who know what to do helps. We had a bull on camera for 4 summers straight, and every year around mid August he would disappear. We scoured a good 6 mile square area trying to find him. What this boy was doing is totally dropping from 8500 ft to semi desert 5000 ft, and not a cow one with him. My son came across him during my granddaughters first rifle season, in a herd of around 40 head, with several other smaller bulls. My son scoped them for a while and he said they were rutting up a storm., on October 15th. Colorado elk, probably more than any other state's elk, are hammered hard from September to mid November and the rifle Otc tags puts literally towns of hunters in the woods. If it snows early and the elk herd up and migrate....I counted 8 gut piles in one large meadow several years ago.

And guess what? When about 20 of us local guys started raising hell with CPW about 5 years ago that their resident herds are losing numbers at a drastic rate, we had several meetings with the local regional headquarters and got the ball rolling up to the Wildlife Commission to get some changes implemented to reduce hunting pressure. What did they do? They cut archery tags by about 60 percent, put them on a draw, which was definitely needed. But, the only other thing they did was to cut the rifle season lengths down a bit, leave at Otc, and cut the rifle cow tags a little bit. The archery hunters bore the brunt of the change, and as the CPW guys told us, you will not do away with the OTC tags because of the $$ they bring in. The state legislature controls the purse of the CPW, and those rifle seasons have the most out of state hunters spending big bucks in the state. Less archery hunters means less bulls killed, But herd health isn't helped because those bulls probably will be harvested now in the rifle seasons. There are even less local archery hunters applying now and just rifle hunting instead.

 

[Deadfall]

Late September is in between the

For you guys that see groups of cows without bulls later in Sept. Do you think there are just not enough bulls to go around, avoid certian areas all together, or you think they are solo just laying low/quiet some place nearby and waiting for a cow to come into estrus?

I have observed this in a former OTC unit in CO the 3rd/4th week of sept and it blew me away. Elk were dead silent so I did alot more still hunting. Saw a half dozen small groups of cows/calf with zero bulls. Only bulls I saw/heard were on private lands elsewhere bugling their heads off. I hunt another former OTC unit and they are typically quiet but the bulls are definitely there with cows, they still just get pushed around by hunters and you have to find them.



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2 heat cycles

 

[sundance1]

YUP. And it seems like that after a couple of years of heavier breeding in the second cycle that they all just hang out in September and drink beer and eat pizza, then take Viagra about second week of October and have a Rut Rumble.

I used to wear out 5-6 diaphragms 20 years ago, easily. Now, I lose more than I wear out. Rip out tree shuddering bugles anymore...nope, 20 years ago I would have laughed at some of the moaning, coughing, spitting, guttural sounds I make now to keep a bull engaged,

 

[Dave_]

Late September is in between the

2 heat cycles

Maybe sometimes, but I've seen plenty of hard rut action from early Sept all the way through 1st Rifle. If my memory serves me the fall equinox ~. Sept 22 is supposed to be the peak, but they don't all go into heat at the same time either. General thinking is that a bull will gather a harem and try to defend it all season, even though multiple bulls will actually breed with her when she is in heat.

One of my untested theories is that it has alot to do with age structure of a population. Younger bulls are less likely to hang around and act like a herd bull or the cows won't let him. If there aren't enough herd bulls the cows to cover, they are alone most of the time until one comes into heat.

Or the cows kick out bulls because they know they are safer without a bull to give away there location and get chased everyday.

Or all those cows in those groups have already been bred and the bulls gave them cab fare and peaced out. .

But you would think those cows would join with others for safety in numbers, but I'm not sure why some populations have alot of small herds vs larger herds. Who knows...lots of variables like yall said.



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[Deadfall]

100 percent there always been 2 cycles. Sometimes the lull is a couple days. Sometimes 10 days.
May be tough to tell depending on circumstances.

 

[5MilesBack]

It seems every year during September I find a 1-2 day window where the elk are absolutely going nuts. The bulls are all screaming to no end seemingly starting in the early afternoon, and herd bulls are constantly running ragged chasing them all away from the hot cows. It's as if 3-4 herds all came together into the same vicinity and elk are running everywhere. It's fun to watch even if you aren't hunting. But darned if I can figure out a rhyme or reason for charting those particular days every year to be able to predict it for future years. Those days seem as random as they can get......falling in every part of September over the past several years. However there are two particular days that seem to show up the most on my chart from my experience, and those two days are 13 days apart.

 

[Dave_]

100 percent there always been 2 cycles. Sometimes the lull is a couple days. Sometimes 10 days.
May be tough to tell depending on circumstances.

Sorry. I didn't mean to imply there is only 1 rut cycle. There's definitely multiple, sometimes more than 2. My point was traditional thinking/research says the peak rut is "supposed" to be centered around fall exinox.

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[cnelk]

In Colorado, I’m betting most of the rut takes place during the 2 week ‘Quiet Time’ between the end of Sept (Archery Season over) and the start of 1st Rifle (2nd Saturday of October) when there isn’t any elk seasons.

 

[Next Ridge]

We typically see two to three days in September when there is noticeably more activity on n general, not just rutting. More elk moving, more vocal. This is observed and trail cams. Don’t know what the trigger is.

This last year the bulls were cowed up in late September. They were quiet but suspect it was because they were protecting their herd.

 

[ckleeves]

Maybe sometimes, but I've seen plenty of hard rut action from early Sept all the way through 1st Rifle. If my memory serves me the fall equinox ~. Sept 22 is supposed to be the peak, but they don't all go into heat at the same time either. General thinking is that a bull will gather a harem and try to defend it all season, even though multiple bulls will actually breed with her when she is in heat.

One of my untested theories is that it has alot to do with age structure of a population. Younger bulls are less likely to hang around and act like a herd bull or the cows won't let him. If there aren't enough herd bulls the cows to cover, they are alone most of the time until one comes into heat.


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I think your age structure theory has a lot of validity to it.

Seen it more times then I can count where the difference in “the rut” going from an otc unit to a very limited unit 8 miles away is night and day.

Less pressure, older age class bulls, higher bull/cow ratio etc in the limited unit and it adds up to us getting a totally different perspective of what’s going on. And yet calves drop at the same time in both units.

There just aren’t that many 6+ year old bulls in most otc units and the ones that are that old didn’t get that old by bugleing their brains out. 2.5 year old raghorns aren’t gathering much of anything for cows so you end up with lots of young silent roamers and a handful of mature quite bulls. Perfect recipe for a pretty quiet rut even if cows are getting bred.

I think we place far to much value on bulls bugleing=cows getting bred. If a guy bases everything on that we would see calves dropping in the spring snow and then others dropping during archery season (maybe that’s a bit of a stretch lol).

 

[trophyhill]

Rut happens same time every year within a certain amount of time due to moon phase, drought, rain, temps etc from what ive noticed since 2009.

 

[cnelk]

Rut happens same time every year within a certain amount of time due to moon phase, drought, rain, temps etc from what ive noticed since 2009.

What happened in 2008?

 

[sundance1]

And my opinions are a little tainted. For those of us who were stick throwers and the art of calling elk was just getting started, man it was a hoot. I could barely talk by the end of a season. It was the best of times, and all these tips and tricks everybody uses nowadays.....we were learning the hard way by trial and error.
What we hit the woods with:
army surplus camo
army surplus canteen that leaked and beat the crap out of you when you ran
Wayne Carlton, Lohman, Quaker Boy, were the big players in calls
Cow calls was 100 percent diaphragm's
Goretex was trash bags in ur shoes
No chambers, baffles, horns for grunt tubes....just vacuum hose cut to length
250 fps bow was a speed bow
No Gps.Onx, carry a phone??? hah
Cheap external frame packs that mashed the hell out of every vertebrae
Work boots for hunting shoes
Weigh our gear? Worry about it?
Carry optics? My first spotter was a from the road one. Would of taken an extra guy to carry it
Film hunts? Hah, wouldn't of wanted some of the boneheads I pulled on film
Anyway, I'd go back in a heartbeat.

 

[trophyhill]

What happened in 2008?

That was my first year hunting elk and I called screaming bulls in with the hoochie mama of all things. But didn’t start hunting CO til 2009

 

[elkhunteralta]

Hunting pressure has a lot to do with the rut behavior, the same patterns have been occurring here in alberta as what everyone else reports. But here we have a large national park herd that sees little pressure and only the bulls that leave the park risk being killed, but there is no archery season next to the park, rifle starts the beginning of Sept and is limited entry only. The behavior in the park starts end of august and runs to end of October for the most part.

The herd numbers between 1000 and 1500 elk in the park, with some classic monster bulls surviving every season, but once you are in the otc tag areas it is completely a different experience.

But it is not the same experience as it was 25 yrs ago, we had a lot of fun made a lot of mistakes and the archery equipment was a limiting factor to killing a bull, the bows today shoot so much faster and easier to shoot accurately it has allowed a lot more bulls to fall to an arrow, probably lowered the wound and loss rate as well though.

The great addiction, archery elk can be, would hate to think my kids won't be able to enjoy it, but the management of all game here is putting that in jeopardy.

 

[ElkNut1]

I do my best not to over think things or complicate things I have no control over. It does not matter to me one bit if things are the same or are slightly changing. My tactics stay the same.

For instance, when the elkwoods are quiet I call much more. When the elk are vocal & rutting I call less since they are already giving away their position.

As long as I'm hunting those breeding months I'm good to go & will call in bulls in late Aug. thru Oct. Most elk I call in these days come in silent, this is pretty normal on OTC DIY public land elk hunts, it's nothing new. It's up to us to play on their curiosity & the fact they are herd animals gives us the upper hand as they go into search mode wanting to know of any elk in their area that they are not familiar with. Calling is King in mountainous timber country. 95% of the time I do not carry binos, I rely on my bugle to locate elk within earshot.

I have a fairly respectable record of calling bulls in every year, no need to fix something that isn't broke!

ElkNut

 

[rclouse79]

I have commented to my hunting partner how nice it would be to trade in all of our fancy equipment in exchange for being able to elk hunt in the 1980s.
I have noticed some wild fluctuations just over the past four or five years ago. One year we had multiple bulls screaming their heads off on the opener and were able to locate vocal elk every day of the season. Another season I didn’t get my first response until the last day of the season.
I would guess the graph of bugling responses over the seasons is a gradual decline with fluctuations along the way. It seems the fluctuations are based on too many complicated factors to pin down.

 

[ElkNut1]

Truth be told! Hunters as a majority do not call enough! They expect the elk to do all the work!

You want to locate elk in un-glassable country then you'd best be prepared to Bugle! It has worked in my 40+ years of elk hunting in every state I've hunted, 32 years of that as a bowhunter.

I too love when bulls will bugle on their own, it makes it so much easier to enjoy a close encounter. Fact is on OTC elk hunts days can go by without this happening. When this is the case Display/Advertise yourself in an elk"s destination spot regardless if they are making sounds or not. Most destination areas where elk venture is short lived, they're there for less than 30 minutes in most cases. Such areas as water sources, wallows, wet or dry, feeding areas, natural mineral licks to name some are potential spots depending on the time of the day.

Bedding areas being the best for calling them out since they are there for at least 7 hours each day & not on the move. Pro Tip--- Bulls in their bedding areas do not appreciate a bull who trespasses into their domain & Advertises himself! Some will come in silent & others show their displeasure vocally in a warning fashion! It's game on, play your cards right & you will have a high percentage opportunity in punching a tag! The mindset of the bull that day means squat, he will come to size you up!

ElkNut

 

[Overdrive]

I personally have observed more bulls mounting cows in early October, now if that's the 2nd estrus I don't know. But these same elk are on their calving grounds on the ranches not far from me and I do notice the calves start hitting the ground Mid June which would be about the right timing of their gestation period (240-260 days). I believe after the Fall equinox plays more into the rut because of the day light fading.

 

[sundance1]

Damn, its almost like turning elk hunting into clout for social media and the resulting onslaught of pressure was a mistake, who couldve forseen that??? Crazy

At least Randy Newberg, Twink Rinella and Born and Raised made some currency and can now afford 30,000 helicopter rides and supertags while we languish in our public lands that are now devoid of wildlife except for wolves and Hushin fans.

And personally i hear plenty of bugles, theyre just from kuiu wearing fancy bois who are more gussied up than a whore on prom night.unring

Imagine you are going to hunt with a primitive weapon, where sound and scent are your worst enemies, where it's true essence is the challenge of matching wits one on one with the phantom of the Rockies.......but there are 6 in your group, trundling hunting down a drainage. And to make matters worse, then you hammer Youtube telling everyone this how you do it, and to come join the party....more is needed.