Colorado senators recalled over gun law

[unm1136]

Twice today I find myself quotin LF.com...


I would rather be a right wing nutjob than a liberal with no nuts and no job.

I deal alot with the menally ill, and the ADA and HIPPA go a long way to preventing people from seeking help and providers from sharing information. I also regularly see the misuse of statutes intented to protect the mentally ill and the general public that folks are fearing their doctors and withholding information critical to their care. There have also been plenty of mass murderers that had no diagnosis prior to their criminal acts. The first psychotic break can be the big one. I have had coworkers killed by a mentally ill person, who used a 1940s era revolver to kill five people at three different locations in less than 36 hours. My wife works for the company that has placed a gag order on all employees regarding the mental healthcare of this particular oxygen thief, and why it took so long to repot the danger to the public.

Retooling of the mental healthcare system is vital. Colorado's (and New York's) knee jerk feel good gun control measures are idiotic.

But the real issue here is not the need for mental health reform, or gun control... It is about a representative republic whose elected officals no longer represent the will of the people, but their own agendas.

BRAVO COLORADO VOTERS!!!!!

pat

 

[Shrek]

Pat , the new laws about mental illness and your rights mean that I would never admit to my doctor if I was depressed. If I was a returning veteran who had seen some hard things and was having some problems I would be faced with loosing my right to keep my guns and being able to hunt or recieve treatment. In my personal profession if I have high blood pressure , diabetes , or a host of other common ailments I could loose my license or be put on a watch list and have to go to the doctor all the time . Most of the guys I work with try to hide anything they are dealing with by using short term tricks to pass physicals and not recieving the treatment they need. If you make blanket laws about mental treatment and require mental health providers to report about people recieving treatment for things like depression you will just make people hide their problems and create even more problems. The sandy hook and aurora killers were known to be dangerous and had been reported to authorities but they failed to act. I don't know what the solution is but more laws is not it imo. There is inherent risk living in a free and armed society that can be ameliorated imo. I do not believe that you can stop all mass murderers without destroying our freedom in the process.

 

[unm1136]

Shrek,
I agree with you 100% on this one. My point was that folks who need help are disincentivized from getting it, and those providing the help are either so afraid of repercussions that they fail to act, or they are so afraid of civil liability that they are willing to certify people as a danger to themselves or others when in reality there is no actual threat, just a concern that the person who left with an IV catheter would get an infection. The local county hospital is so busy that they lose track of patients and then essentially put out an arrest warrant, claiming that people are crazy and actively a threat when they simply leave AMA. I am currently involved in litigation, as a witness, where the charge nurse thought a person left with an IV catheter in place so the doc signed a commitment order so the patient would be forcibly returned to the ER to verify that the IV had been removed and sign the discharge orders.

The direction that healthcare is going is making these problems worse, not providing better treatment. Traveling in this direction makes detecting and acting on the problems much more difficult. I am not certian I have a solution either, but I do know that what we are doing now and what we are proposing to do in the future compound the problem, rather than resolve it. The VA is listing some returning vets as threats on the federal instant background check system, precluding the purchase of firearms, when federal law requires ajudication of mental illness to be a disqualifying condition. I would much rather an independant judicial determination of dangerousness be used than a simple administrative one.

China, which has much stricter laws than ours concerning both firearms and the treatment of the mentally ill, had a man enter a kindergarten and kill 20+ children with a knife the day after Sandy Hook.

When I talk about improving mental health laws, I mean not having the special interests writing the laws. Removing the administrative barriers to reporting the truly dangerous, and having the means to work through the issues rather than an all or nothing response based on the practice of defensive medicine. Actually, seveal of the systems in place might work better if they were used as intented, rather than misused. I am confident that our political system is poorly equipped to come up with solutions, since the solutions tend be political, rather than medical, psychological, or practical.

pat

 

[Shrek]

Beyond this discussion , wow ! They had someone committed so they could check if a catheter had been removed !? That to me is grounds to revoke the doctors license and sue him and the hospital out of business. I've met plenty of doctors who treat patients as if they owned them and there was no such thing as consent but going so far as to commit someone for not taking their advice or cooperating with treatment is criminal. To me personally I feel the standard should be mental impairment that someone couldn't understand the consequences of their actions or a threat to others but not a threat to ones self. I believe you have the right to end your own life so being a threat to ones self is not reason for committal imo.

 

[realunlucky]

This thread sure has drifted off course. Simply senators votes should reflect the people that elected them and not party or personal lines. Period.

 

[Shrek]

First and foremost they need to uphold the constitution.

 

[tstowater]

This thread sure has drifted off course. Simply senators votes should reflect the people that elected them and not party or personal lines. Period.

Not trying to continue this into neverland, but what happens when the majority of the people are of the opinion that the Constitution is either wrong or insignificant? Frankly, in many places on the East and West Coast and larger cities (read BO voters), the majority would not think twice about our gun ownership and hunting rights and legislate them out of existence in a blink of the eye. Don't expect a response, but thoughtful consideration that the majority isn't always right and that the leaders of this great Country at all levels of government need to follow the law (read Constitution), before considering what the "people" want and have the backbone to tell the majority that.

 

[realunlucky]

Not trying to continue this into neverland, but what happens when the majority of the people are of the opinion that the Constitution is either wrong or insignificant? Frankly, in many places on the East and West Coast and larger cities (read BO voters), the majority would not think twice about our gun ownership and hunting rights and legislate them out of existence in a blink of the eye. Don't expect a response, but thoughtful consideration that the majority isn't always right and that the leaders of this great Country at all levels of government need to follow the law (read Constitution), before considering what the "people" want and have the backbone to tell the majority that.

My point is your senator should vote the way of his constituency that is his/ her duty. The majority is often wrong and when its right its over turned 5-4 in the supreme court. It could happen that there comes a time when they try an push an amendment they are already trying to get the court the define the the intent of the 2nd amendment. With a document that lives and can be interpreted by a panel of nine it doesn't matter what the majority thinks only who the 9 are and what they think the constitution means.

 

[Rucker61]

My point is your senator should vote the way of his constituency that is his/ her duty. The majority is often wrong and when its right its over turned 5-4 in the supreme court.

A quote I saw in some of the topic discussion: "A democracy is a mob, and the mob is stupid".

 

[MAT]

Demographics are changing, you can hold your do not give an inch mantra until it’s all gone. I’m into solving problems, but it seems there is no problem? Tell that to the victims. It’s all ammo for the antis, so unless you fix it there will be more calls for control, and next time the votes might not be in your favor. Then what? We made the supreme court case by 1 vote…

A minority on both sides want to control everything. Neither option is good. Being in the middle politically is the worse place to be, you get it from both sides!

 

[Ironman8]

So we should compromise, huh? Well last I checked, when only one side is giving up something, that's not compromise.

Secondly, there's only one side that's trying to control everything (and no this isn't a R vs D situation, IMO there's no difference between the two these days). I happen to be on the side of leave me the hell alone and let me live my life without you forcing your laws and distorted ideals down my throat.

 

[Curtis C]

Demographics are changing, you can hold your do not give an inch mantra until it’s all gone. I’m into solving problems, but it seems there is no problem? Tell that to the victims. It’s all ammo for the antis, so unless you fix it there will be more calls for control, and next time the votes might not be in your favor. Then what? We made the supreme court case by 1 vote…

A minority on both sides want to control everything. Neither option is good. Being in the middle politically is the worse place to be, you get it from both sides!

The 2A has been getting chipped away inch by inch for several decades now. The Anti 2A crowd will never stop making attempts to eliminate the 2A and they will be happy to do so inch by inch over several more decades if needed. We give an inch and they take 2 over and over. Its time Americans wake up and pay attention to whats happening here. The 2A is the protector of all the others and when its gone the rest will quickly be taken away.

I am happy to see that some are, here in CO we got the recalls done, Illinois gun laws are starting change because the voters stood up.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Franklin