College vs skilled trades.

[MattB]

Either way you go, you will make more money if you stop trading your time for money and have other so that for you.

 

[Wildwapiti]

As I coached my kids, college isn’t for everyone, and the data supports that. Roughly 38% of the U.S. population receives an undergraduate degree, 6.4% a masters, and 2.0% a doctorate.
I fully support a college education, as I am a chemical engineer, and spent 4 years as an adjunct professor teaching night classes. If you decide to go to college, first and foremost study a field that will financially support yourself upon graduation, secondly get a degree in a field that you truly enjoy as you will need to work for forty years.

So, referring to the data, what is 62% of high school graduates doing for employment? IMO the single best solution is the trades, Plenty of opportunity, good wages & benefits. Again IMO we are failing the majority of our high school students, as it seems that the education system tries to gear everyone to go to college, and does nothing to support the trades. There is no reason that a high school graduate shouldn’t be well on their way to becoming a journeyman.

 

[SDChungus]

Civil Engineer here I can weight in on this a little from both perspectives. Growing up my Father was a self employed millwright (iron worker, master welder, jack of all trades) and is one of the more competent people you'll ever meet with only an 8th grade education. He made a solid living for his family...but always you never know where that next paycheck is coming from as any self employed business owner. You work your hands to the bone and by 55 your body is shot. You will make less money if employed by someone doing the trade, but probably more work life balance. Now as an engineer with a bachelor degree...$55k-$60k starting plus benefits and 2 weeks vacation. Year 5 as a junior engineer $75k/year close to 3 weeks vacation with benefits... you'll work 50-80 hours / week. Senior level engineer $100-$150k is going to be your top end as an employee (adjust for location and living costs). A real degree and grinding your mind...burning out by age 55-60 or physically destroyed by 55 working the trade...in the end its all about what you want. As an employee you'll never truly "make it", but will be reasonably comfortable regardless of trade or degree (real degree not gender studies).

 

[gbflyer]

I have 2 friends that are PE’s. One retired the other my age. Both employed by the same state agency. The retired one did well, the program was a lot better for him. The one that is still working doesn’t receive the benefits like they did back in the day and hates his life. All he does when he gets out of the office is physical labor to work out his frustrations. He would argue that the sedentary lifestyle of being a staff engineer is potentially harder on your health than the guy who puts the bags on every day.

 

[Weldor]

Retired Weldor ( yes the spelling is right welder is the machine.) I went to a Vocational college in the late 70's worked since 79. Retired at 60. I have no complaints, worked with many college educated engineers, on average made about 10-15 k more than a new engineer, senior engineers made a little more. union of course for me. You can't rely on posted average salaries for welders. Most of those are small low rent shops, not corporations or oil companies.

 

[southLA]

All he does when he gets out of the office is physical labor to work out his frustrations. He would argue that the sedentary lifestyle of being a staff engineer is potentially harder on your health than the guy who puts the bags on every day.

Agreed. I'm outside as much as possible after work. Gotta get the energy out.

 

[jimlatham048]

Both have merit. I went to college right out of high school, started a small business and ran it until I was in my early 30s. Being a business owner (albeit one who didn't have enough financial forethought at the time) paid far better than my degree. I was in a luxury goods business that struggled when the economy went South in 2008. Started into an electric apprenticeship program, fully paid, and haven't looked back. It was hard physical work, but with a good background in management and finance, I transitioned quickly to the management side of the business. Trades isn't all about the physical side of it. There are many career paths on the management/ ownership side of trades businesses that can be achieved through working in the trades. The advantage of a trades education is paid education, and skills that are marketable literally anywhere in the world.

They provide a better opportunity to bootstrap oneself up, without going heavily into debt. That being said, unless you own a shop, there is a ceiling of about 200k a year that is harder to pass than it is with the right college degree. Currently I am working on a 2nd degree in construction management/ project management, fully paid by my employer. I also own a percentage of the business, and have excellent benefits, a company vehicle, and a schedule that gets me home before my kids get out of school. The thing to avoid in the trades route is getting stuck working with your tools on until your body breaks down. This is the trap, and the negative that many people see when they think of construction work, is the 60 year old plumber crawling under your sink.

Nice one

 

[wyodan]

I have 2 friends that are PE’s. One retired the other my age. Both employed by the same state agency. The retired one did well, the program was a lot better for him. The one that is still working doesn’t receive the benefits like they did back in the day and hates his life. All he does when he gets out of the office is physical labor to work out his frustrations. He would argue that the sedentary lifestyle of being a staff engineer is potentially harder on your health than the guy who puts the bags on every day.

This! I put in a lot of work outside of the office to relieve frustrations from staring at a computer every day. I fully agree that the sedentary lifestyle is much harder on your health. There was a lot more job satisfaction with putting the bags on as well.

 

[MadMaxx]

I did not go to undergrad until I was 25, graduated worked for 3 years and went back to grad school for a MPH/MBA. Finished when 35....but well worth the effort..made over a couple of million $ over my career

 

[2rocky]

One thing I am thankful for while going to college, is that I worked Physical jobs in the summer. As if to remind myself "This is what you can do without a college degree, and you aren't worth any more until you get it."

Now that I have that 24 year career using my education, my retirement plan is to get back to doing those summer jobs to supplement my retirement...

 

[southLA]

Now that I have that 24 year career using my education, my retirement plan is to get back to doing those summer jobs to supplement my retirement...

Funny how that works huh.

 

[roymunson]

Cmon over and work for me. get a CDL and put the work in, i'll get you your 100k. Without 150k in debt for a piece of paper.

Seriously, I'm looking for a couple guys. You interested?

 

[Htm84]

Cmon over and work for me. get a CDL and put the work in, i'll get you your 100k. Without 150k in debt for a piece of paper.

Seriously, I'm looking for a couple guys. You interested?

40 hour work week I’d assume?

College vs skilled trades boils down to paying up front to have to work less later on in life. You can make good money in the trades but it requires a lot of your time. 6-10s 7-12s shit like that. My brother kinda lucked out not having to get a degree in a place where one is generally required. He was making close to 200k a year while working from home for about the last decade. I’d be surprised if he put in 30 hours a week and a lot of that seems like silly meetings. He gets unlimited time off.

I drove a truck when I turned 21. Put in 80 plus hour weeks all while being away from home and sure didn’t make 100k. That 150k piece of paper didn’t seem so silly.

 

[ben h]

I was a carpenter through college and got my degree in Civil engineering. I worked for myself for a few years building spec homes afterwards, but then needed to work for an engineering firm or under another engineer so I could get my 4 years of expierience and get my PE. At times, I definitly miss putting my bags on, but on the whole deal, I think it was fine to go that route. Nothing wrong with going through the trades, but realise if you're sucessful going that route it won't be because of the trades, it will be business and money management skills. Being a contractor or self employed tradesman is more like being a banker than it has to do with building stuff.

 

[Bubblehide]

I have worked n the trades, and now as a professional with a couple graduate degrees. However, I wore out the cartilage in both of my knees over the years. December of last year, I had right shoulder surgery. April of this year, I had left shoulder surgery. I had been falling due to my bad knees (mostly the right), and finally got a full right knee replacement this past May. I was put on medical leave for each of these surgeries (3 months for the knee replacement). I have prostate surgery scheduled in just over a week. Then I still need full knee replacement on my left knee, another 3 months or more on medical leave.

If I were working the trades, I would get state disability during the medical leave. However, I am very very fortunate to get about 80% of my normal pay for 100 working days, per incident. In short, I am extremely fortunate to be able to continue to have a substantial income, more than enough to pay my bills, through all these surgeries. I also pay for a disability insurance policy that covers an additional 2 years, if I need it. It pays about the same percentage of my salary. But, due to the 100 days paid per incident, per year, I will have to tap into the disability policy.

My point here is that there can be some serious advantages to some professions, especially as we are aging and the likelihood of medical needs increases.

 

[roymunson]

40 hour work week I’d assume?

College vs skilled trades boils down to paying up front to have to work less later on in life. You can make good money in the trades but it requires a lot of your time. 6-10s 7-12s shit like that. My brother kinda lucked out not having to get a degree in a place where one is generally required. He was making close to 200k a year while working from home for about the last decade. I’d be surprised if he put in 30 hours a week and a lot of that seems like silly meetings. He gets unlimited time off.

I drove a truck when I turned 21. Put in 80 plus hour weeks all while being away from home and sure didn’t make 100k. That 150k piece of paper didn’t seem so silly.

45-55. retirement, healthcare help, good work environment. Enough money that if your wife wants to stay home with the kids, you can do that.

200k a year for 30 hours a week is an anomaly. Also, he probably has something in his training or a god given gift that most of the population doesn't have. Good for him. But if you're worth anything where you work on a truck, 80-100k is not that far out of the realm of possibility.

It all boils down to a work ethic. Blue collar or white collar, if you have all the talent in the world, but don't have a work ethic, it ain't gonna work for ya.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

Think about where you want to live too. I picked a degree that allows me to work in remote locations that many people would never have the opportunity to. Many degrees have very different paths to follow once you graduate.

Make sure you pick a degree that at least interests you some what, the end goal is to make money, but you want to have some passion for it.

You could also join the military for 3 years and get full GI Bill.

 

[ethan]

I'm a machinist by trade and my wife is a teacher. I make way more than she does, but that may not be a fair comparison. I think you have to look specific circumstances. But you also have to factor in taking out loans for 100K + for a degree vs 3 or 4K for a trade school. That being said, I visit many machine shops in a pretty large geographic area and every customer I have is having major issues finding experienced machinist and not one is having any trouble finding engineers, HR people, etc... At some point I would think the divide will get even bigger than it is now.

 

[MadMaxx]

I guess I was lucky.. Went to undergrad and grad school free (full ride) academics not athletics

 

[307]

I'm a machinist by trade and my wife is a teacher. I make way more than she does, but that may not be a fair comparison. I think you have to look specific circumstances. But you also have to factor in taking out loans for 100K + for a degree vs 3 or 4K for a trade school. That being said, I visit many machine shops in a pretty large geographic area and every customer I have is having major issues finding experienced machinist and not one is having any trouble finding engineers, HR people, etc... At some point I would think the divide will get even bigger than it is now.

What are the odds that a computer/robot completely takes over your industry in the next 20 years? Not attacking you personally, but these are always things I think about with the insanely rapid advancement of technology.