Collar fit on Daysix arrows?

[Topo_trekker]

How tight did the collars fit on your Daysix arrows? Website says may require some sanding, which I would’ve preferred, but there seems to be a tiny bit of play on the 250s.


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[Travis Hobbs]

Are you using the new centric system? Or the old system?

 

[Topo_trekker]

New. 100gr. Got them squared and seem to be spinning fine. Haven’t epoxied anything just yet. Pic is pushed to one side to show the amount of play, it’s not bad probably around that .001 mark, wondering if this is what other guys have seen.

 

[sveltri]

Isn't the gap uniform? The way I understood it the collar position is driven by the threaded connection between the insert and the collar. If they spin true before epoxying, shouldn't they maintain the same "gap" after epoxying?

 

[Topo_trekker]

I think your right. Was expecting a tighter fit I guess.


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[Topo_trekker]

On another note, for those looking I did get a nearly perfect fit with the BE Deep Impact 300 nock pin.

 

[MTSabo]

Isn't the gap uniform? The way I understood it the collar position is driven by the threaded connection between the insert and the collar. If they spin true before epoxying, shouldn't they maintain the same "gap" after epoxying?

This is how i understood it. I epoxied them in as one piece and had good results.

 

[PresTex]

I’d give them a call. I think they’re supposed to be a press fit and in my mind you lose the structural advantage of the collar with there being so much room. DaySix will take care of you if they’re an issue


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[dkime]

I think the other design was a tighter fit, while these were opened up a little bit more to make room for the epoxy. I made stabilizers in my past life and we had to open up the end caps quite a bit to prevent the epoxy from "squeegee'ing" out the sides. If they're spinning true, I would just epoxy them in place and call it good!

 

[Boxerboxer]

On my HD 350s with the Centric halfout/footer they all went on easily. Maybe a teeny bit of play but once glued, as someone else said, it doesn't matter.

 

[madkaw284]

They should be a tight fit around the shaft. Like another poster said, it’s losing some structural integrity if there’s play


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[dkime]

They should be a tight fit around the shaft. Like another poster said, it’s losing some structural integrity if there’s play


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Why would there be play if it’s filled with epoxy?


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[PresTex]

Why would there be play if it’s filled with epoxy?


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I’m no expert so this is just my opinion.

There’s no play once epoxied, but the point of this kind of system to mate the components to the shaft as seamlessly as possible. With space between the shaft and the collar you might as well not have the collar on there as that epoxy will not support the shaft on a hard impact.




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[madkaw284]

I’m no expert so this is just my opinion.

There’s no play once epoxied, but the point of this kind of system to mate the components to the shaft as seamlessly as possible. With space between the shaft and the collar you might as well not have the collar on there as that epoxy will not support the shaft on a hard impact.




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Correct answer


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[dkime]

I’m no expert so this is just my opinion.

There’s no play once epoxied, but the point of this kind of system to mate the components to the shaft as seamlessly as possible. With space between the shaft and the collar you might as well not have the collar on there as that epoxy will not support the shaft on a hard impact.




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I’ve got two dozen shafts showing up tomorrow so I’ll be able to report back on mine. What I can tell you from messing with the stabilizers we use to build was that the strength of the epoxy when applied correctly was stronger than the aluminum end caps we were manufacturing. I would assume the same in this case especially given the wall of the centric system is thinner than the end caps I was making. There’s obviously gotta be some gap for the epoxy to work correctly, that’s the same concept on all arrow systems. I’ve got a few ideas for improvements but I’m gonna keep them in my back pocket until the highest bidder shows up lol. I built a set of these last week for a fellow Rokslider and was really impressed by how little runout I was able to achieve fairly easily. Just my opinion but I’d rather have a little more room for epoxy than have to sand the OD of the shafts potentially damaging them too.


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[PresTex]

I’ve got two dozen shafts showing up tomorrow so I’ll be able to report back on mine. What I can tell you from messing with the stabilizers we use to build was that the strength of the epoxy when applied correctly was stronger than the aluminum end caps we were manufacturing. I would assume the same in this case especially given the wall of the centric system is thinner than the end caps I was making. There’s obviously gotta be some gap for the epoxy to work correctly, that’s the same concept on all arrow systems. I’ve got a few ideas for improvements but I’m gonna keep them in my back pocket until the highest bidder shows up lol. I built a set of these last week for a fellow Rokslider and was really impressed by how little runout I was able to achieve fairly easily. Just my opinion but I’d rather have a little more room for epoxy than have to sand the OD of the shafts potentially damaging them too.


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You’ve got a point there. I talked to Hoss at Ethics Archery about it a while back and he said they’ve taken 10/1000th’s off a shaft, added their system, and not had any structural issues. With that said, I would prefer not to have to take material off the shaft, because unless you have a way to take off a consistent amount of material I think it’s hard to get a perfect fit and maintain concentricity with the shaft. Could be wrong on that though. Mating the half out to the collar may eliminate that issue.

So I suppose my question would be how much room is too much? At some point that collar is no longer going to properly support the shaft and the force will all go to where the shaft and the half out meet. It was my understanding that their centric system was meant to be adjustable by threading on different collars should you need to adjust the weight so most guys would not be using epoxy on the collar. I know I like to tinker too much so I don’t epoxy my collars on either the centric system or ethics outsert system which would require a tight fit on the shaft to get the most strength out of the system.


Additionally, what kind of epoxy are guys using if they choose to epoxy the collar on? Is it going to take a hard impact without cracking and creating a failure in the system? I also worry that with too much between the shaft and collar that the epoxy won’t fill all the gaps and while it be stronger than no epoxy would not be as strong as a tight fit between the shaft and collar.

Just spitballing here so if I’m off base with the epoxy let me know.

Curious to hear what you find with your shafts when they come in as well.


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[dkime]

I think I may play around with different outserts initially but I don’t trust the threads to hold up over long periods, mostly just gonna see how the difference between 50-100 group tunes at distance and then I’ll epoxy them in. Day Six sent Mitten32 some epoxy with his shafts, it looks like the same Easton epoxy. Same shaped package and same color and consistency some I’m guessing it’s the same.


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[Boxerboxer]

You’ve got a point there. I talked to Hoss at Ethics Archery about it a while back and he said they’ve taken 10/1000th’s off a shaft, added their system, and not had any structural issues. With that said, I would prefer not to have to take material off the shaft, because unless you have a way to take off a consistent amount of material I think it’s hard to get a perfect fit and maintain concentricity with the shaft. Could be wrong on that though. Mating the half out to the collar may eliminate that issue.

So I suppose my question would be how much room is too much? At some point that collar is no longer going to properly support the shaft and the force will all go to where the shaft and the half out meet. It was my understanding that their centric system was meant to be adjustable by threading on different collars should you need to adjust the weight so most guys would not be using epoxy on the collar. I know I like to tinker too much so I don’t epoxy my collars on either the centric system or ethics outsert system which would require a tight fit on the shaft to get the most strength out of the system.


Additionally, what kind of epoxy are guys using if they choose to epoxy the collar on? Is it going to take a hard impact without cracking and creating a failure in the system? I also worry that with too much between the shaft and collar that the epoxy won’t fill all the gaps and while it be stronger than no epoxy would not be as strong as a tight fit between the shaft and collar.

Just spitballing here so if I’m off base with the epoxy let me know.

Curious to hear what you find with your shafts when they come in as well.


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Bryan Broderick told me any 24 hour epoxy is fine, for what it's worth.

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[Don Qui Puncher]

I had a similar gap with the 250 vaps and ethics system, the dude from ethics told me the glue would take up the space so I loaded it in there 2 of 12 wouldn’t spin after drying and I checked them every hour or so for the first few hours they were perfect. They sucked to get out of the spyderweb and after a few dozen shots I spun them again and 4 of 12 still spun true I cut them out and in the trash they did go...

 

[Boxerboxer]

I had a similar gap with the 250 vaps and ethics system, the dude from ethics told me the glue would take up the space so I loaded it in there 2 of 12 wouldn’t spin after drying and I checked them every hour or so for the first few hours they were perfect. They sucked to get out of the spyderweb and after a few dozen shots I spun them again and 4 of 12 still spun true I cut them out and in the trash they did go...

How were they positioned while drying?

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