Cold Weather/Range Finders - Bad Mix (No Matter who your vendor is...)

[wildernessmaster]

Just want to post this for everyone's sake... Not bashing any product or vendor in this mix, but I am pretty sure that most all suffer from this after talking to 2 major electro-optics vendors....

This past season 2019, I took my Sig Sauer Kilo Range Finder to Montana for my elk hunt. While I was out there Shedhorn had its great pre-season sale and I picked up a set of Vortex Fury's for a great deal.

During the run up to gun season, I was trying out my Vortex's scouting and kept getting what I thought were dead batteries. No range finding image in the glass, no ranging finding function working. At first, I thought it was bad batteries and changed them out. In the house in the warmth, they worked. Out in the field, in the cold it didn't. BTW, it was cold but not the typically Montana cold as a witches tit cold - more like 20 - 10 degrees.

So for gun season, I ditched the Vortex Fury's and used my old reliable Sig.

Opening week of gun season it dropped to the minuses for a period I was hunting. Specifically a few days before I killed my elk and the day I killed it, it was in the 10 - -17 degrees. During some stalking and when I went to took my shot, my Sig failed me. Its reading image would be very weak... and if it did work it was showing wonky ranges.

Fast forward to post season. I called both vendors to talk with them.

An aside, the customer service I got from Vortex was as I always find it spectacular. The customer service I got from Sig - really sucked balls. I mean really sucked balls. I won't get into it here but it was so bad I went on social media and put it out there.

Sig immediately went in the offensive-defensive mode and kept saying I put bad batteries in it. I told him the brands of the 3 different batteries I tried and all were brand new bought from 3 different locations. That shut him up about the batteries, but then he started saying that range finders lasers don't work well in the cold = au contraire my friend. Unfortunately for him, I am an electrical engineer... Lasers need cold. IGiven his statement I asked for the operating specifications of the device (which almost ANY manufacturer so share). It would have the operating temp ranges. He refused to share. In the end after going through this idiots spiels, I did get to a supervisor who finally told me they really didn't know but they think around 14 degrees they start failing.

Vortex while giving me less run around and better service (answering the phone and getting me to the right person) ended up essentially saying a similar thing.

Given lasers don't fair worse in the cold, given new batteries, etc and with my EE background, what I suspect is this.... When it is cold two things happen that end up in bad ju ju for the range finders:
1. The laser takes more energy to "energize" (its cold)
2. The batteries have lost some voltage/amperage due to the cold.

Given the compact format of these devices and the smaller batteries they use, those energy sources are just not enough in the cold to push the laser over the "energization" hump to fully function. In absence of a fully functioning laser you get wonky readings. More so you get massive battery drain so the screen in the finder looks weak as well.

Like I said at the start... thats two major vendors who opened the kimono... I suspect all suffer from this same issue.

Me personally I am adding range finding reticles to my scopes for a backup.

 

[Fatcamp]

Leupold 1500 worked good at 20 last Fall.

 

[JGRaider]

The same thing happened to my Geovid (403's). Temps below 32* and the thing wouldn't range for squat. In fact my Sig 2200 ran circles around the Leica that week. I was very unimpressed with the Leica, and Leica's usual schittty customer service sucked once again. They went down the road after that.

 

[SteveCNJ]

What technology do range finding reticles use and wouldn't they experience the same afflictions?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[slim9300]

What technology do range finding reticles use and wouldn't they experience the same afflictions?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

It’s the battery.

Run a hand warmer in your RF pocket and problem solved. Not great for my Kilo 2400 ballistics solution, but it’s my only option. Sigs seem extra sensitive to a cold battery. 20* and less is where this starts to show up.

The OP’s odd interaction with Sig doesn’t make much sense. I spoke to them about this issue over two years ago and they were well aware. They suggested I freeze a battery versus use a warm one to prove their point that the battery was causing the failure. The battery is the weak link.

Again, run a small chemical hand warmer in the pouch and your problem will be solved. I use the small toe ones and stick it to the rangefinder.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brian Fahs]

Ran a leica crf for the past 10 years or so. Some sub zero hunts in the treestand during that stretch. Never had an issue. I am a bowhunter so extreme range distances are not in the mix.

 

[idahohikker]

Sig customers service consistently sucks in my experience and those of one other guy I know.

 

[nastynick]

I don’t know if I have much to add for the rangefinder in cold temps conversation. But will say that I dropped a Sig rangefinder in a creek and when I called them and told them what happened. They shipped me a brand new one of a better model as mine was an older model. It was great service. Obviously a lot depends on who you deal with. But thought it was worth sharing my experience with Sig.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've used my Leica CRF in sub-zero temps without any issues. But I always keep it in a pocket when it's cold. But there's a huge difference between the Leica and my Sig Kilo 2000 in regards to battery life. I went five years on the same battery in my Leica when I first got it, but can't even go a year with the Sig. The Sig must need a lot more power for its laser or electronics.

 

[PathFinder]

My Leica 1600-B has always given ranges in the cold, but it will read wacky/inaccurate distances below 15°F or so.
The battery info above is very interesting, I think a formal experiment would make a great sticky thread. Try multiple batteries at temps from 20°F and below.

Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk

 

[Brendan]

I've had SIG no questions asked replace two rangefinders with brand new ones. Took 6 weeks or so, but having the units replaced with new was about the best i would have hoped for. One was a 2200 that wasn't ranging right. One was the 2200 they sent me as a replacement - locked up and wouldn't function no matter what you did to it.

But, good to know. Fingers crossed I'm hunting in cold weather for Elk with my 2400ABS this year. Not sure there's a better option in that category.

 

[slim9300]

I've had SIG no questions asked replace two rangefinders with brand new ones. Took 6 weeks or so, but having the units replaced with new was about the best i would have hoped for. One was a 2200 that wasn't ranging right. One was the 2200 they sent me as a replacement - locked up and wouldn't function no matter what you did to it.

But, good to know. Fingers crossed I'm hunting in cold weather for Elk with my 2400ABS this year. Not sure there's a better option in that category.

I sent them my 2400ABS a few months back that was having issues compared to my Leica 1600 and they told me it tested fine. The Leica was working more reliably with regard to poor weather (snow) and providing accurate ranges.

I still love my 2400ABS but it’s not ideal. I have been using this rangefinder for three years now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Yellowknife]

I've seen issues with Bushnell, Leica and Leupold when it's cold. Probably some others too. They all fade badly in single digits and become basically non-functional if cold soaked below 0F for any length of time. Depending on the brand and display style, you will either start loosing ranging distance or the LCD will go too dim to read.

I try to keep them in an inside pocket for the most part and just pull them out just long enough for a reading. If it doesn't work, I go with the "get closer" strategy.

 

[Formidilosus]

They do not all suffer from it, but most do. This was briefly discussed a while back in a thread about Leica BRF’s when I brought it up.

It’s not ranging in cold that is the problem, it’s cold soaking as YK stated. Mostly it’s the battery. First is make sure it’s a fresh battery when you start. Then, some batteries are better for constant drain (flashlights) some are better for fast and quick drain uses (LRF/flash on a camera). Lithium’s seem to do better, longer. And keeping a battery close to your skin and rotating everyday works. However, different units do show different performance in cold. There seems to be three general ranges that units are effected; The first between 22-27°. Most units exhibit reduced performance in this range. Then between 10-15° is the next, and then again below 0°.

From what I’ve experienced with several examples of each-

22-27°:

Leica BRF’s between 30-50% have reduced performance. Around 5-10% have extremely reduced performance.

Swaro EL Ranges- about 10% with reduced performance.

Meopta Meoranges- 100% (2) that I’ve used stopped ranging past 230m at all below 27°

Sig rangefinders- about 25% have reduced performance.

All Vortex Fury 5000’s, Nikon Laser Forces, and Zeiss BRF have been fine.



From 10-15°:

Just add another 10% to each number, plus a couple Fury 5000’s with issues. Laserforce and Zeiss BRF still fine.


Below zero most have problems. Even with warm batteries. So far consistently below zero the Nikons Laserforces have been the least troublesome, with reduced performance past 700m, but nearly unchanged inside of that. The Zeiss’s seem to do well, but the small size and amount of use is too limited.

 

[Formidilosus]

I will say, that while Leica has been the worst of the alpha’s, it’s seems to be a circuit problem. When sent back, they usually return working excellently in cold. Also, the ones that don’t have issues have shown very good performance all they way to well below zero.

 

[Ben RT]

One tidbit of info I might toss in, for those who keep their rangefinders warm from body heat or hand warmer, is that quite a few of these rangefinders will provide their ballistic compensated distances based partially on the temperatures it is perceiving. If you're keeping it at 65 degrees but the actual ambient temperature is 15 degrees your shot could hit low by a fair amount (i.e. roughly 3" at 500yds and 22" at 1000yds from my 6.5CM). If you're keeping it 90 degrees, then the figures will obviously be even further off. Food for thought, anyway. My solution has been to keep my rangefinder warm with my body's heat, and only use it for distance or distance with angle compensation only (my old Leica couldn't do that, which is partially why I use the new Leupold).

 

[slim9300]

One tidbit of info I might toss in, for those who keep their rangefinders warm from body heat or hand warmer, is that quite a few of these rangefinders will provide their ballistic compensated distances based partially on the temperatures it is perceiving. If you're keeping it at 65 degrees but the actual ambient temperature is 15 degrees your shot could hit low by a fair amount (i.e. roughly 3" at 500yds and 22" at 1000yds from my 6.5CM). If you're keeping it 90 degrees, then the figures will obviously be even further off. Food for thought, anyway. My solution has been to keep my rangefinder warm with my body's heat, and only use it for distance or distance with angle compensation only (my old Leica couldn't do that, which is partially why I use the new Leupold).

Yep. I made that point above. It’s pretty easy to keep that difference in your head though if you know it in advance. I feel like it works better than having no rangefinder or quick ballistic solution due to the cold.

My 210 Berger is much less affected than a 140 grain 6.5mm bullet also. The difference between 20* and 90* with my setup is 1.2 MOA at 1000 yards, and 0.2 MOA at 500 yards. At what I would consider hunting distances it’s a non-issue.

Also, if it’s a long shot and you have time, it’s easy to spin the rangefinder around for about 30 seconds and get the temps down. I have played around with it and spin it just like a Kestrel. Works pretty quickly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fireman03]

I've had SIG no questions asked replace two rangefinders with brand new ones. Took 6 weeks or so, but having the units replaced with new was about the best i would have hoped for. One was a 2200 that wasn't ranging right. One was the 2200 they sent me as a replacement - locked up and wouldn't function no matter what you did to it.

But, good to know. Fingers crossed I'm hunting in cold weather for Elk with my 2400ABS this year. Not sure there's a better option in that category.

Thats two too many to have too replace

 

[dirtytough]

I’ve hunted in the cold a fair amount and luckily haven’t had issues. Maybe because I wasn’t ranging very far? My binos and rangefinder ride on my chest in a harness.

Killed a buck archery when it was -28 ambient -57 with windchill. No way was the rangefinder much warmer than ambient from my body heat with the wind. Ranged 70 yards.

Killed a buck rifle when it was -10 ambient. Ranged to 450 yards.

Have hunted and killed multiple yotes from -10 to -25 and haven’t had an issue. I’ve used Sig, Leica, and Leupold.

I’ll try to test it this winter when it’s cold a lot further distances.

 

[22lr]

Sustained cold can drain batteries in a hurry. Spent a year up in Greenland and universally, in the -35 to -45 range I could get about 5 to 10min from my phone or camera batteries before they froze and needed to be warmed up under my parka. What sucked is I lost a lot of potentially epic time-lapse videos due to that. Keep battery powered units under your parka in the super cold. But I never had a bad problem thawing anything out. Keep them wrapped in a towel and keep them in the unheated garage for a few hours. Large temperature swing (like going from -35 to 65) will cause nasty condensation and that's usually how electronics "die from the cold." I froze my phone and camera a solid 2-3 dozen times but never had a problem since I would gradually warm them up over the course of a few hours.