Cold bore zero versus (very) Hot bore zero “test”

[journeyman713]

The idea that your “gun-nuts camp” just wants to stack piles of shell casings and brag about manliness to strangers might just be your perception. The main point being that the more you shoot, the better you get and the chances of success increases, while mistakes decrease.
Most the folks I’ve been around my entire life are in your “one-shot-one-kill camp”. Boomers who baby their equipment that hardly ever gets used, and I’ve witnessed so many shit show rodeos that could’ve been avoided had they spent a little more time mentally in the other camp.
Rokslide is a place that encourages folks to practice, shoot more, adopt more efficient systems and not worry about things that don’t matter. The funny part is the amount of resistance to that advice that gets posted by dudes who feel like there’s some other camp they’re not welcome in because their old system is criticized as less effective.

Big assumption, wrongly, I might add, that the “One shot–one kill” camp, doesn’t practice enough to be very skilled.

We practice plenty, while being mindful it is the first shot that matters, and there’s a point of diminishing return between, being locked in a zone ripping off hundreds of shots in a sitting, vs resetting, and overlaying many series of smaller clusters, over time. We take our time, in a methodical way, maybe mosey on up to the target (while the gun cools), make some notes, repeat, day after day, and compare, until confidence level is very high.

In the end maybe we’re all good shots, but the “Gun–nuts” camp probably goes through way more ammo, believing that’s what makes them better shots. Are they? Takes more than that, to be in the “One shot–one kill” club, where it’s only the first shot, that matters.

I’ve done deer drives with guys that like to ‘shoot a lot’, can always tell when they see something, tend to use every bullet in their gun, fairly ineffectively. In contrast, I’ve had occasions where a hunting partner is outwardly belly laughing, at the distance I’m about to take a wild boar, or a whitetail, then a singular shot – wild game down.


Also, I never said, one camp is better than the other, or which camp to join. Both are fine, be undecided, change if you want to, change back. Don’t care, but know the difference.

 

[Marbles]

Form, haven’t seen you post anything in a while, must be a record.
Many of us are still waiting for you come clean on, “Exactly what happens, when you pour water on a smoking hot barrel and suppressor”. Outside of course, completely voiding the warranties.

---------------------

For those waiting, I’ll just add this.

Even though most of us are Hunters, on a Hunting forum, it’s important to recognize we’re not all on the same page, we are two different groups, with different goals. Both are fine, but different.

One group; Dreams of making that first shot count at Trophy game, they practice at ever expanding their ethical shot distance. Let’s call it the “One shot–one kill” camp. They tend to care for their equipment in a way, it could be passed down for generations.

The other group; Dreams of being knee deep in shell casings, then bragging about it as if it’s some measure of manhood, they believe, whoever shoots the most, wins. Let’s call them the “Gun–nuts” camp. They tend to do things in excess for fun, destroying their equipment, is just part of the game.

Very different goals.

So, when a member of the “Gun–nuts” camp makes a statement, often times it’s just about bragging, more to impress strangers than anything else, or maybe to start some ridiculous pissing match, no harm done.

But when they make suggestions… to the “One shot–one kill” camp… Remember, they don’t care about their equipment, and surely not about yours.
Such as, “just pour water on your Smoking hot barrel and Suppressor”. That guy definitely knows better, he just doesn’t care.

As has been pointed out, more than once, he clearly already answered the question.

You have spilled quite a few pixels in the interim, yet still haven't answered why it is a bad idea, despite being asked multiple times. That speaks volumes about your apparent willingness to say things you are unwilling to back up.

 

[Formidilosus]

Belt feds get shot in the rain and the snow. Suppressors get shot in the rain and the snow. Rifles get shot in the rain and the snow.


Complicated and hard to grasp, I know.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

The idea that your “gun-nuts camp” just wants to stack piles of shell casings and brag about manliness to strangers might just be your perception. The main point being that the more you shoot, the better you get and the chances of success increases, while mistakes decrease.
Most the folks I’ve been around my entire life are in your “one-shot-one-kill camp”. Boomers who baby their equipment that hardly ever gets used, and I’ve witnessed so many shit show rodeos that could’ve been avoided had they spent a little more time mentally in the other camp.
Rokslide is a place that encourages folks to practice, shoot more, adopt more efficient systems and not worry about things that don’t matter. The funny part is the amount of resistance to that advice that gets posted by dudes who feel like there’s some other camp they’re not welcome in because their old system is criticized as less effective.

This right here... Well said.

 

[PathFinder]

One constant in the gun world is that those who shoot the least speculate the most, and are the most certain of their conclusions...

Determining whether rapidly cooling hot barrels and suppressors will cause issues is not particularly complicated. For both, it's a function of thermal gradients, which is proportional to cooling rate. The suppressor has the additional factor of constraint from baffles.

For a Ti suppressor at 500 degrees:

• Lateral stress: ~35 ksi.
• Circumferential stress: ~50 ksi when constrained.
• Baffle stress: ~1.5 ksi.

All values are essentially insignificant. All decrease rapidly as the baffle stack cools. Stress in suppressors with baffles separate from the tube (IE Banish 30) is significantly less.

For barrels:

If the temperature difference from OD to ID were ~420 degrees when cooling a 500 degree barrel, the circumferential stress in the bore of 416 R barrels could approach yield. For 4130 barrels, it would be ~60% of yield.

In my current setup, even a 30 shot string with a UL cover doesn't produce temps over 500f on the can. The barrel temp is significantly lower. Anyone who has done it, knows that suppressors and barrels don't cool as fast as the model above. Even using snow, it takes a couple minutes to cool from 500f to 80f. That means the thermal gradients modeled above would be nearly impossible to achieve.
Unsurprising that engineering and testing were correct, and speculative dogma was not. Myths have to die somehow I guess.

The assertion that people who shoot less like hunting more is comical...

 

[RockAndSage]

One constant in the gun world is that those who shoot the least speculate the most, and are the most certain of their conclusions...

^^^ This. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.

 

[Formidilosus]

One constant in the gun world is that those who shoot the least speculate the most, and are the most certain of their conclusions...

Determining whether rapidly cooling hot barrels and suppressors will cause issues is not particularly complicated. For both, it's a function of thermal gradients, which is proportional to cooling rate. The suppressor has the additional factor of constraint from baffles.

For a Ti suppressor at 500 degrees:

• Lateral stress: ~35 ksi.
• Circumferential stress: ~50 ksi when constrained.
• Baffle stress: ~1.5 ksi.

All values are essentially insignificant. All decrease rapidly as the baffle stack cools. Stress in suppressors with baffles separate from the tube (IE Banish 30) is significantly less.

For barrels:

If the temperature difference from OD to ID were ~420 degrees when cooling a 500 degree barrel, the circumferential stress in the bore of 416 R barrels could approach yield. For 4130 barrels, it would be ~60% of yield.

In my current setup, even a 30 shot string with a UL cover doesn't produce temps over 500f on the can. The barrel temp is significantly lower. Anyone who has done it, knows that suppressors and barrels don't cool as fast as the model above. Even using snow, it takes a couple minutes to cool from 500f to 80f. That means the thermal gradients modeled above would be nearly impossible to achieve.
Unsurprising that engineering and testing were correct, and speculative dogma was not. Myths have to die somehow I guess.

The assertion that people who shoot less like hunting more is comical...

Well said sir.

 

[Dobermann]

Belt feds get shot in the rain and the snow. Suppressors get shot in the rain and the snow. Rifles get shot in the rain and the snow.


Complicated and hard to grasp, I know.

But but but ... now you're just being condescending and a meanie. Wah wah wah.

 

[journeyman713]

What is it, ignorant week?

I make a PSA, to not listen to some knucklehead on the internet giving out bad advice, he responds with sarcasm and nonsense.

Maybe ask him, if his grand testing data, will help overturn your voided warranty, when you will surely need it.

You’re welcome.

 

[Castle Rock]

Must be into the second bottle by now

 

[RockAndSage]

What is it, ignorant week?

I make a PSA, to not listen to some knucklehead on the internet giving out bad advice, he responds with sarcasm and nonsense.

Maybe ask him, if his grand testing data, will help overturn your voided warranty, when you will surely need it.

You’re welcome.

You're standing on a small island of knowledge, with a tiny illuminated shoreline of ignorance, unaware of just how vast that ignorance truly extends.

This was a very uncool post, bud.

 

[RancherJohn]

What is it, ignorant week?

I make a PSA, to not listen to some knucklehead on the internet giving out bad advice, he responds with sarcasm and nonsense.

Maybe ask him, if his grand testing data, will help overturn your voided warranty, when you will surely need it.

You’re welcome.

I think my warranty was already void, but either way...

 

[RockAndSage]

I think my warranty was already void, but either way...

View attachment 1004801

Man, who TF do you hate so much to send belt-fed 77gr TMK downrange in volume?

 

[Formidilosus]

Man, who TF do you hate so much to send belt-fed 77gr TMK downrange in volume?

Ooohhh if you guys only knew…

 

[RockAndSage]

Ooohhh if you guys only knew…

When you care enough to send only the best, but goddamn...that's a whole lotta deserve, to deserve that.