CO Elk Structure, 2025+

[Overdrive]

This is why. Those hunts would likely no longer be once in a lifetime opportunities.

Still going to be Oil licenses no matter what. Everyone's definition of Oil licenses is different, some want to hunt out West once others want a trophy style hunt. So waiting for those hunts people shouldn't be penalized and still get to hunt in the meantime. The system is out there for all to use or not.

 

[Lytro]

Still going to be Oil licenses no matter what.

Point creep would essentially be eliminated if you lost points by receiving any tag. There's no denying that. But hey I get it, you've been banking points while hunting every year and you're trying to protect your own interests. I'd likely have the same opinion if I were in your shoes.

 

[CObywayofUSAF]

To me its insane that a NR would want to buy an OTC bull tag for 760$ when the success rate for most OTC units is near single digits (combine cow + bull!). If I was out of state I would rather spend that money, or more, and know the quality of my hunt would be much better but further between. But I can see why CPW is addicted to unlimited NR OTC. They will make this decision with their pocket book, not hunter quality and herd sustainability, despite the current dog show.

It's amazing to me also, but I think a lot of things play into it.

1. $760 actually isn't as much money as it used to be (obviously).
2. You have a huge amount of people who don't understand draws nor care to learn about them so they hunt OTC.
3. First time people who have no idea what they are getting into with an OTC hunt.
4. Point stackers who just want to get out and hunt, but don't really care about the outcome.

You also have a bunch of other factors that have compounded why OTC hunting has gotten so crappy. Other states shutting down OTC tags over the years.....CPW turning more units into limited and concentrating more hunters....etc

 

[Overdrive]

Point creep would essentially be eliminated if you lost points by receiving any tag. There's no denying that. But hey I get it, you've been banking points while hunting every year and you're trying to protect your own interests. I'd likely have the same opinion if I were in your shoes.

You don't think Point creep is going to get way worse under a draw only system, now those 0/1 PP units after the first year will take 1/2 the next year 2/3 and it continues to grow.

Remind you I get a 2nd choice license that no one wanted as their 1st choice and can I still pick it up as a leftover, why should I be penalized because people don't want to hunt on the tag I can pick up after 3 chances for them? Anyone can do it, but they'd rather complain that the system doesn't work.

 

[KsRancher]

You don't think Point creep is going to get way worse under a draw only system, now those 0/1 PP units after the first year will take 1/2 the next year 2/3 and it continues to grow.

Remind you I get a 2nd choice license that no one wanted as their 1st choice and can I still pick it up as a leftover, why should I be penalized because people don't want to hunt on the tag I can pick up after 3 chances for them? Anyone can do it, but they'd rather complain that the system doesn't work.

I agree 100%. I hear the same thing about "NR getting too many tags" in some draw units. I think someone posted that in 80/81 that NR got a big percentage of the tags. It's simple, the tags were there for the residents to get. All they had to do was put it down for 1st choice and they would have a tag.

 

[Lytro]

You don't think Point creep is going to get way worse under a draw only system, now those 0/1 PP units after the first year will take 1/2 the next year 2/3 and it continues to grow.

Not if you lost points by drawing any tag. 200,000 hunters would get knocked to 0 every year.

If it goes to a 100% draw, I doubt CPW will reduce the total number of tags within the state by much. Hunter numbers within the current OTC units will just be controlled. They’d all be 0-1 point units until some youtube dork posts a hunting video from one of them. Current 0-1 point units shouldn’t be any more attractive to people since they’re already huntable nearly every year.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Residents will hate me but I think option 6 on both is the way forward. It decrease pressure and increase quality across the board. If I were a resident i would rather have a quality bull and/or cow tag hunt than the ability to hunt wherever and whenever I wanted.

My only issue with the 6th option is that would likely create a massive bottle neck in low point units, which results in point creep…

You don't think Point creep is going to get way worse under a draw only system, now those 0/1 PP units after the first year will take 1/2 the next year 2/3 and it continues to grow.

Remind you I get a 2nd choice license that no one wanted as their 1st choice and can I still pick it up as a leftover, why should I be penalized because people don't want to hunt on the tag I can pick up after 3 chances for them? Anyone can do it, but they'd rather complain that the system doesn't work.

I’m with you… my fear of total elimination of any other non point option, comes from the worry that it would drive all lower point units up to 3-6 points pretty dang quick, this fear is probably irrational… but it depends on how many tags are issued and in what areas, if people spread out it works great, but if all of a sudden “an influencer or who knows” puts your spot on the map… it could creep real quick these days

 

[Overdrive]

Not if you lost points by drawing any tag. 200,000 hunters would get knocked to 0 every year.

If it goes to a 100% draw, I doubt CPW will reduce the total number of tags within the state by much. Hunter numbers within the current OTC units will just be controlled. They’d all be 0-1 point units until some youtube dork posts a hunting video from one of them. Current 0-1 point units shouldn’t be any more attractive to people since they’re already huntable nearly every year.

Wishful thinking, but not everyone putting in will draw every year so some will get a PP. Units and DAUs will still have license limits and if the demand is higher than the supply we're right back to point creep only it hits the lower draw units harder.

If the CPW keeps the license numbers the same then why are people even pushing for a limited draw? It will be the same ol game but cost people more to hunt with the qualifying license and with just as much crowding and complaining.

 

[Felix1776]

I could see some merit to the A6/R6 approach. However, like @ScreamingPotato said, the thought of a resident not being able to hunt their own state every year is insane to me. At this time, I'm thinking A5/R5. I've hunted as a NR before, and I do think hunting NR should be a privilege. You shouldn't necessarily get to do it every single year if the numbers don't allow for it. In an ideal world, you would be able to, but it is what it is. I plan to do more thinking on this though.

 

[Lytro]

Wishful thinking, but not everyone putting in will draw every year so some will get a PP. Units and DAUs will still have license limits and if the demand is higher than the supply we're right back to point creep only it hits the lower draw units harder.

If the CPW keeps the license numbers the same then why are people even pushing for a limited draw? It will be the same ol game but cost people more to hunt with the qualifying license and with just as much crowding and complaining.

The entire idea is wishful thinking on my part because it would never actually happen. Lol

With a total draw, crowding would be somewhat mitigated with each unit being limited entry. Hunters would be guaranteed to be dispersed. There's currently nothing stopping 20,000+ from hunting a single unit. Not having OTC available as a fallback that hunters can buy the day before the season starts would also weed people out.

 

[Lytro]

However, like @ScreamingPotato said, the thought of a resident not being able to hunt their own state every year is insane to me.

A resident could currently hunt elk every year if they only hunted draw units. Statistically, every resident would be able to get a tag every year with an 80/20 allocation split if every unit was a draw.

 

[Felix1776]

A resident could currently hunt elk every year if they only hunted draw units. Statistically, every resident would be able to get a tag every year with an 80/20 allocation split if every unit was a draw.

Thanks for the clarification. Despite having hunted OTC for several seasons, I just started playing the draw system this year so I'm no expert. Other than the relative inconvenience of having to plan your entire hunting season out ahead of time and then applying accordingly, that wouldn't be too bad. But if a guy is playing the points game, he'd be doing that anyway.

 

[tdhanses]

I guess what I'm getting at is; that's a lot of money for most (why anyone would spend that much on golf is beyond me). I would rather spend it knowing there was a quality experience waiting for me on the other end rather than CPW shelling those tags out as fast as they can to make some fat stacks. The message I hear from CPW is not "we value the contribution of non residents and want to make sure they have a good experience", it's simply "we need non resident money to keep flowing". As a non-res I would be hoping to see some improvement on the latter part of that statement.

While not always successful I always have an opportunity when I hunt in CO, guess I don’t see it like you, I see it as CO giving me an opportunity to make the most of it, I’d see it the same if I was a resident. I have a property that backs up to public that I’ll start to hunt more and get to know it, did a little on it this year and didn’t see crap. Hunted where I have mainly for the last 13 years and had opportunities at elk and bear.

 

[tdhanses]

Still going to be Oil licenses no matter what. Everyone's definition of Oil licenses is different, some want to hunt out West once others want a trophy style hunt. So waiting for those hunts people shouldn't be penalized and still get to hunt in the meantime. The system is out there for all to use or not.

Why should they, or make those purely random and take points away, then you can hunt still. But to hunt and build points is pure greed and yes we have all been allowed to do it but if the change is made to where we can’t my strategy will change as well.

The building pts and still hunting game needs to end.

 

[tdhanses]

You don't think Point creep is going to get way worse under a draw only system, now those 0/1 PP units after the first year will take 1/2 the next year 2/3 and it continues to grow.

Remind you I get a 2nd choice license that no one wanted as their 1st choice and can I still pick it up as a leftover, why should I be penalized because people don't want to hunt on the tag I can pick up after 3 chances for them? Anyone can do it, but they'd rather complain that the system doesn't work.

Sounds like you want no changes.

 

[tdhanses]

I could see some merit to the A6/R6 approach. However, like @ScreamingPotato said, the thought of a resident not being able to hunt their own state every year is insane to me. At this time, I'm thinking A5/R5. I've hunted as a NR before, and I do think hunting NR should be a privilege. You shouldn't necessarily get to do it every single year if the numbers don't allow for it. In an ideal world, you would be able to, but it is what it is. I plan to do more thinking on this though.

A resident would easily be able to hunt every year but they wouldn’t build up pts for trophy units, would have to make a plan. There are so many u it’s that residents hardly apply to so the NR gets a larger percentage then they normally would, once residents actually apply for these units they would easily get a tag and NR wouldn’t, you would hunt every year but maybe not where you hunt every year today.

 

[Overdrive]

Sounds like you want no changes.

No I'd prefer people get to hunt every year.

 

[tdhanses]

No I'd prefer people get to hunt every year.

And people will you just won’t necessarily get your 2nd choice area as a 2nd choice. There will be nothing that stops a resident from hunting every year other than themselves and their choices. I get you want to keep building trophy unit points and hunting on a 2nd choice tag but your only thinking of yourself. You could easily hunt every year and not build points, that will be easy, there are way more tags available to residents then there are resident hunters, just if you all apply for a unit that takes 20pts and don’t draw, well that’s on you.

Sounds like the unit you hunt annually takes 0pts and would easily continue to take 0pts, you’ll just burn your points if you want to hunt it, just like the rest of us will burn our points.

 

[jake.messenger]

A6 and R6. Fixes the hunter density problem and residents would still be able to hunt every year in more than half the state. NR would be able to hunt every 1-3 years. Fewer hunters, increased opportunity and trophy potential. The state gets plenty of money that hunters never see.

 

[Overdrive]

And people will you just won’t necessarily get your 2nd choice area as a 2nd choice. There will be nothing that stops a resident from hunting every year other than themselves and their choices. I get you want to keep building trophy unit points and hunting on a 2nd choice tag but your only thinking of yourself. You could easily hunt every year and not build points, that will be easy, there are way more tags available to residents then there are resident hunters, just if you all apply for a unit that takes 20pts and don’t draw, well that’s on you.

Sounds like the unit you hunt annually takes 0pts and would easily continue to take 0pts, you’ll just burn your points if you want to hunt it, just like the rest of us will burn our points.

Don't recall anywhere that said it was all about me, that's why I said I prefer people get to hunt every year. Residents or Non residents it makes no difference to me, just hunt, build points or both I'm not one for pushing what I think is the only way.

I spend 3 1/2 months guiding non residents in 2 states and helping them to fulfill their dreams of an Elk hunt, but yeah it's all about me.