Cliven Bundy Situation

[fillthefreezer]

Something doesn't add up here. As there seems to be several stories, the facts are hard to figure out. My question is why Bundy would pay the fees for a long time and then stop? Isn't the allegation that he has tried to pay the State, but Nevada refuses to take the money? Too many other twist to the story, whether smoke screens or not, to truly understand what is going on here. Frankly, I don't trust any of the parties.

^yep...

 

[JoshTX]

he spits in the eye of every other rancher that pays those fees. shit, as hunters, most of us pay a fee.

the authorities handled it really bad, really bad..but man, they handled it bad!!

I agree. Very unprofessional on all sides.

 

[BroodBuster]

The guys an idiot and a thief not only robbing from his fellow ranchers but from us hunters too by suppressing wild animals from being able to eek out an existance on such arid grazing land.

And the Feds are corrupt.

Don't pay the man you can't steal from the rest of us. Pay the man and you can steal from the rest of us.

 

[Shrek]

His argument is that the feds don't actually own the land and that it is constitutionally state lands and that is who he is willing to pay. He stopped paying and playing the fed game when he realized it was rigged to put him and every other rancher out of business.

 

[krueger]

Bundy is a complete jackhole and he will lose! He thinks that he can steal from the BLM and every other American citizen because he got there first. Guess what its not the 1800s anymore and things change. Once he stopped paying the grazing fees he forfeited his legal grazing rights and in my mind has zero claim to that land over anyone else regardless of how long his retard family has been using it. Bundy is not entitled to anything

 

[Floorguy]

You can't pay the fees until you sign a contract renewal saying you agree to the terms. The terms that every other rancher signed and agreed to are the reason that there are no other ranchers in that county. Essentially the contract said he would have to cut his heard drastically and stop grazing them there. In return he would have to pay them for the privledge of getting to re-up his grazing contract. Essentially to sign and pay would mean that he wouldn't be able to continue ranching and would have to close his ranch. All because of an endangered tortoise whom blm have moved the boundries of their territory depending on what kind of development is planned. This case bears some similarities to the Kelo v. City of New London the major difference is in Kelo they used eminent domain to take property and here they are using the endangered species act to close off grazing. Kelo took housing to develop a shopping center here it is grazing to develop solar farms. There isn't any recourse that is possible, the game is rigged and has been for decades.

I haven't heard of or seen any ranchers lambasting Bundy I have seen them coming to his defense though, kinda says something at least in my mind.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Tne Nevada Stockgrowers and Cattlemens Associations were remarkably quiet on this. I think that silence speaks volumes.

 

[krueger]

To me it sounds like he was grazing too many cattle on the range and his cattle caused so much damage that it was harming a native endangered species. And in addition to that he wasn't paying his grazing fees either...... So how is this idiot in the right???

 

[desertcj]

Right or wrong, I'm glad to see the feds get some push back. Personally, I don't care for the BLM. It is a government agency that has a self generating need. I'll give a specific example of a chunk of BLM land that is near me. http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/media...1098.File.dat/SJRGBusinessPlan17March2010.pdf

They recently started charging "Day use fee's" as well as "camping fee's". How do they justify the fee's? Because they made improvements and installed buildings and campgrounds and added permanent staff to the site. Kinda funny, I don't remember asking for any of that! It's typical of the government, they will charge money for anything they think they can get away with. You can even see in the title of the link I posted "Business Plan"....

 

[PA 5-0]

His argument is that the feds don't actually own the land and that it is constitutionally state lands and that is who he is willing to pay. He stopped paying and playing the fed game when he realized it was rigged to put him and every other rancher out of business.

Someone is doing their research. Go Shrek!!

 

[PA 5-0]

You can't pay the fees until you sign a contract renewal saying you agree to the terms. The terms that every other rancher signed and agreed to are the reason that there are no other ranchers in that county. Essentially the contract said he would have to cut his heard drastically and stop grazing them there. In return he would have to pay them for the privledge of getting to re-up his grazing contract. Essentially to sign and pay would mean that he wouldn't be able to continue ranching and would have to close his ranch. All because of an endangered tortoise whom blm have moved the boundries of their territory depending on what kind of development is planned. This case bears some similarities to the Kelo v. City of New London the major difference is in Kelo they used eminent domain to take property and here they are using the endangered species act to close off grazing. Kelo took housing to develop a shopping center here it is grazing to develop solar farms. There isn't any recourse that is possible, the game is rigged and has been for decades.

I haven't heard of or seen any ranchers lambasting Bundy I have seen them coming to his defense though, kinda says something at least in my mind.

I agree with everything you stated above Floorguy except for one thing. These boys in Nevada just put a new "recourse" on the table: a couple hundred militia men with ARs. I hate to see violence/firearms as a solution for anything, but sometimes there is only one way to deal with a bully.

 

[Floorguy]

I agree with everything you stated above Floorguy except for one thing. These boys in Nevada just put a new "recourse" on the table: a couple hundred militia men with ARs. I hate to see violence/firearms as a solution for anything, but sometimes there is only one way to deal with a bully.

True I had meant through the court system or any other means other than civil disobedience.

 

[Pueblo]

I posted this picture on another site too. Here's what some of this land looks like. I took this photo in 2011 just south of Bunkerville heading up into the Virgin Mtn foothills. Just some perspective on the quality of this land. I found cattle (I have no idea whose) up at the highest springs in the Virgins. Mr Bundy should pay his bills and none of this would have happened.

Another thing going on in this area is the litter, vandalism and mis-use of public land is rampant. All of the areas within a decent ATV ride of Mesquite, NV are just trashed. The BLM might want to display a little heavier hand in dealing with the yahoos who are making such a mess up there.

 

[Hardstalk]

To me it sounds like he was grazing too many cattle on the range and his cattle caused so much damage that it was harming a native endangered species. And in addition to that he wasn't paying his grazing fees either...... So how is this idiot in the right???

Bold statement. Wrong, but bold. If anyone knows how many acres can support a single cow or a million head of cattle it would be the guys using the same plot for centuries to raise the cattle. Its far from profitable to have a bunch of starved thirsty cattle multiplying and running rampid.
By no means am I saying the bundys are brilliant, but given a reason to argue over what they stand for america could learn alot.. These old ranchers will tell you how much water a cactus needs to survive for 12 years, how much water is used from a 12 year old juniper tree on an annual basis. And so on.


As for the "endangered species" you mention. The desert tortoise is simply a weapon used for a long time here in Nevada for acquiring land via fed's. The nearest sanctuary to me had well over 1,000 turtles being supported by federal employees, up until the point they decided they no longer needed them and euthanized them by the 100's. Millions spent to "save" and "protect" the creatures that do quite well in the habitat with absolutely no forage. All to captivate, cash out, and kill. But the land? Yes, the land of these previous creatures is now... You guessed it. Protected. In the name of ole uncle sam.

This fiasco was about an hour from the house. It had some good points, some not so good. Who side am I on? Still not sure. The media has chopped this story into pieces leaving the masses to put the puzzle together in the court room. If you follow underground media your for the bundys. Rightfully so, the underground media basically lives for a revolution. Hints the sudden militia involvement. I couldn't bring myself to side with either party during the storm. Without the proof and facts being presented in all there glory there is not enough for me personally to build a case on.

And the Harry/Rory reid scandal behind this is just as questionable. There are alot of pieces missing to the puzzle.

Add: Nevada, and this issue so close to vegas, is still controlled by a group of good ole boys if ya know what I mean. There were alot of people in the pocket on this issue, they were extremely east to spot like PA mentioned above. Surprised no one has mentioned Tom Collins choice words..

 

[Floorguy]

signing the contract and following the terms is my since the 70's the number of permittees has decreased from 52 to 3 in that area

its kind of like this imagine you are a distance runner and the government decides your running causes harm to the yellow breasted dingus bird because you run through a trail that is in its territory. Your parents ran down that trail as did your grandparents and their parents. But a 3 year long term study established there was a problem oh and there isn't a trail anywhere else that you can use. And lets say that in order to use this trail you have to pay a fee each time you use it which you have mainly because you didn't want a headache from the feds. Now their solution to the yellow breasted dingus is in order for you to pay the fee to run the trail you have to sign a contract that says you will let them cut both your legs off mid thigh. You say screw you this it isn't even federal land but I have been paying just cause I didn't want a hassle and the contract had been reasonable mainly you pay and run the and the feds don't say anything. Then one day they show up and say the option now is mid thigh and you pay us or we hold you down and cut your legs of at the hip joint. And about the time you are saying F*** you they whip out a clever and cut off a couple toes. I am pretty sure most people here would be ready to kick back. Going by some of the comments though rokslide would have a few amputees though.

 

[Hardstalk]

Another thing most people are not aware of is the land of the mcullugh (spelling) mt.range. It is over run with ferrel cattle because a rancher supposedly up and left his cattle there 15-20 years ago. After grouping up with the local wildlife conservation groups we funded a project to remove the ferrel cattle. Began the work, built the pens, created the water tanks, and would eventually lead the cattle in to be rounded up and sold at auction with the funds going back to the state. After our money was spent, and work was completed for the cattle to be rounded up. The project was swiftly stopped. (Unknown who stopped the progress) the cattle still roam free and multiply yearly, stomping whatever turtles they please. We have been the only effort to remove the cattle in years, in the name of saving turtles,sheep and deer.. These mountain ranges are just a few hours from the bundy ranch. Would have been a much more efficient roundup for those paid cowboys to acquire un owned cattle if it was about the turtles.

 

[Darren Best]

Telling that these "standoffs" happen under liberal rule.

The almighty gov is very good at smearing a persons name and then sending in the troops to sort things out when they get uppity.

I was an adult and still live a few miles south of Ruby Ridge. Mr. Weaver can tell you a thing or two about being made out to be a bad guy then having snipers posted around his home when he refused to dance to their tune.

I heard a thing or two about a place called Waco as well.

As soon as the BLM sent in SWAT and snipers, I smelled a rotten fish. Far too many dirty politicians with grimy tentacles in this mess to just up and say that Mr. Bundy is a no good so and so.

Free speech zones??? Bullshit!!!

Just why exactly do we have so many government agencies with so much firepower. The BLM has snipers? Really?

How many want to bet money that if patriots hadn't marched in there to make the feds back off that Mr. Bundy would already be dead?

You young guys had better wake up and stop smelling the government propaganda. Charging him a "tax" and getting a bought judge to back it up is EXACTLY the kind of move a crooked politician or three would pull to get their way.

 

[hflier]

The responses here lead me to understand the III% movement (look it up). Bundy may be wrong, hard to say. If he is, the government should handle it like every other person that they think owes them money. The armed militaristic response and calling Bundy a terrorist are part of a far worse problem than a rancher not paying his fees. I think you have to be over 40 to understand how much freedom we have lost over the last 20-30 years. This is not the same country anymore.

 

[Shrek]

. I think you have to be over 40 to understand how much freedom we have lost over the last 20-30 years. This is not the same country anymore.

I don't even recognize my country anymore. Obama Bin Laden won on September 11th due to the cowardice of the George W Bush leadership. The Patriot act was pure cowardice and a firm move to a police state. I really don't know which President I think less of , Bush or Obama. Both are evil cowards afraid of a free America. There was a great deal of ground work done by the elder Bush ( former head of the CIA ) and Clinton but little George Bush delivered the death blow to freedom in this country and Obama has doubled down to cement the police state. Soon there will be no disguising the evil that has been wrought.

 

[PA 5-0]

Another thing most people are not aware of is the land of the mcullugh (spelling) mt.range. It is over run with ferrel cattle because a rancher supposedly up and left his cattle there 15-20 years ago. After grouping up with the local wildlife conservation groups we funded a project to remove the ferrel cattle. Began the work, built the pens, created the water tanks, and would eventually lead the cattle in to be rounded up and sold at auction with the funds going back to the state. After our money was spent, and work was completed for the cattle to be rounded up. The project was swiftly stopped. (Unknown who stopped the progress) the cattle still roam free and multiply yearly, stomping whatever turtles they please. We have been the only effort to remove the cattle in years, in the name of saving turtles,sheep and deer.. These mountain ranges are just a few hours from the bundy ranch. Would have been a much more efficient roundup for those paid cowboys to acquire un owned cattle if it was about the turtles.

Yet another great piece of information to utilize while you're deciding which side of this cluster you support. Thx Hardstalk. Never knew feral cattle existed. $900,000 US tax dollars would have rounded up a lot of those wild critters right???

Wild cattle. Rare tortoises that the Feds kill off. Freedom of speech zones. Funny stuff. Someone smarter than I should start writing the movie script.