Cliff Gray interview of Tim Sundles

[7mm-08]

This guy spends decades hunting and guiding, builds enterprise, creates a YouTube channel that's absolutely packed with good info, which every one of us can benefit from, and he engages with us here on top of all of that...

...and this $h*t is all you have to say?

GTFO with that asshattery.

I respect you calling me out/disagreeing with my perspective, but "yes," that is all I have to say. Sorry I'm not part of the in-crowd following social influencers on YouTube. Nothing personal with Cliff, but that's how folks who are in his lane operate.

 

[RockAndSage]

I respect you calling me out/disagreeing with my perspective, but "yes," that is all I have to say. Sorry I'm not part of the in-crowd following social influencers on YouTube. Nothing personal with Cliff, but that's how folks who are in his lane operate.

Would it be unfair to say that's a pretty broad generalization if you don't follow him on any social media?

Because from what I can tell, he operates in the hunting lane one hell of a lot harder than I do. And I've learned quite a bit from his content. That's appreciated. Maybe give him a second look, and a little benefit of the doubt.

 

[BLJ]

"My name's Tim Sundles....... and I've drunk more beer and banged more quiff and pissed more blood and stomped more ass than all of you numbnuts put together!"

Funniest of the day for me.

Bravo.

 

[rogerdoger]

I listened to the podcast as well as the follow up Q&A. I thought it was a good podcast, not that I agreed with everything but had some good things to consider.

I honestly will value the information from somebody that has different perspectives on things, like cartridges. Seeing the different perspectives helps me do a little critical thinking and come up with my own conclusion on subjects.

Great podcast Cliff, thanks for putting things out there just to make the crowd happy.

 

[cottonant]

Appreciate the post on this and everyone's thoughts.

Do I agree with everything that everyone on my podcast says, of course not... But I can't think of any interview that I've done where I didn't learn something from the other person. Tim is no different. to boot, Tim is one of the most enjoyable guys to bs with. Great experience out in the woods, loves to tell stories, and enjoys discussing his takeaways. Many other folks that are a little "controversial" that I have had on are similar.

On pushing back.... why would I? I don't have the experience with large cartridges that Tim has, I probably never will. I'm not him. I'm not going to extrapolate my experience in other scenarios, with other rifles, other styles of hunting into an abrupt conversation stopper of "you're wrong". That is asinine. Do I try to ask follow-up questions that dig deeper into "the why" a certain opinion would be? I try, and that is an art that I am working to improve. There are times I think I asked Tim good follow-up questions and times I could have done better.

Thanks for commenting on this Cliff. I personally think you did a fine job interviewing Tim Sundles…and I especially enjoyed your interview of the Gunwerks founder Aaron Davidson as well.

In the Sundles video the wolf issue was the most intriguing to me, but it appears I’m in the minority.

Keep up the good work and remember, Haters Gonna Hate.

 

[TheTone]

"My name's Tim Sundles....... and I've drunk more beer and banged more quiff and pissed more blood and stomped more ass than all of you numbnuts put together!"

Left out poisoned more dogs and birds

 

[huntsman22]

And finished the Bataan Death March. He's pretty bad-ass.....

 

[7mm-08]

Would it be unfair to say that's a pretty broad generalization if you don't follow him on any social media?

Because from what I can tell, he operates in the hunting lane one hell of a lot harder than I do. And I've learned quite a bit from his content. That's appreciated. Maybe give him a second look, and a little benefit of the doubt.

I'm certainly not trying to offend you, but its unfair to say I made any broad characterization about Mr. Gray - at all. I don't follow him (or anyone else on any social media). In fact, I wouldn't know him from anyone else I passed on the street. Please note that I never said he was talking out his butt, that he didn't know jack about jack or that he was mean to children and disliked puppies. I certainly didn't infer that he had not contributed positively to the outdoor community. In my first post, #17, I simply expressed my opinion that it is imprudent to bring any attention to certain individuals and I stand by that - why give them any oxygen because, after all, that's how they thrive. Indeed, there have been "2K" views on this very thread alone. I'll leave it at that.

Second (and I believe this is where you took issue with me), I did write a snarky post at #37 and for that I want to apologize to Mr. Gray for doing so. That was not my best work. Although completely true, the wording was less than perfect and for that I'm sorry. I appreciate you coming to Mr. Gray's defense and expressing your thoughts about Mr. Gray, which are outside the scope of material on which I commented. I have no reason to believe Mr. Gray is anything other than how you described him. That his content has been beneficial for you, I am pleased to hear that's the case.

Mature adults can agree to disagree and I hope you have no hard feelings regarding our back-and-forth.

 

[Cliff Gray]

I'm certainly not trying to offend you, but its unfair to say I made any broad characterization about Mr. Gray - at all. I don't follow him (or anyone else on any social media). In fact, I wouldn't know him from anyone else I passed on the street. Please note that I never said he was talking out his butt, that he didn't know jack about jack or that he was mean to children and disliked puppies. I certainly didn't infer that he had not contributed positively to the outdoor community. In my first post, #17, I simply expressed my opinion that it is imprudent to bring any attention to certain individuals and I stand by that - why give them any oxygen because, after all, that's how they thrive. Indeed, there have been "2K" views on this very thread alone. I'll leave it at that.

Second (and I believe this is where you took issue with me), I did write a snarky post at #37 and for that I want to apologize to Mr. Gray for doing so. That was not my best work. Although completely true, the wording was less than perfect and for that I'm sorry. I appreciate you coming to Mr. Gray's defense and expressing your thoughts about Mr. Gray, which are outside the scope of material on which I commented. I have no reason to believe Mr. Gray is anything other than how you described him. That his content has been beneficial for you, I am pleased to hear that's the case.

Mature adults can agree to disagree and I hope you have no hard feelings regarding our back-and-forth.

First, I do appreciate the support from folks. but, I'm not offended.

@7mm-08 and many others share an interesting philosophy. some aspects I adamantly disagree with, other aspects are legitimate issues

Eventually it's a topic that I will get on my youtube channel/podcast. but just to be forthright, those episodes will be 100% for clicks...

it's all good

 

[RockAndSage]

I'm certainly not trying to offend you, but its unfair to say I made any broad characterization about Mr. Gray - at all. I don't follow him (or anyone else on any social media). In fact, I wouldn't know him from anyone else I passed on the street. Please note that I never said he was talking out his butt, that he didn't know jack about jack or that he was mean to children and disliked puppies. I certainly didn't infer that he had not contributed positively to the outdoor community. In my first post, #17, I simply expressed my opinion that it is imprudent to bring any attention to certain individuals and I stand by that - why give them any oxygen because, after all, that's how they thrive. Indeed, there have been "2K" views on this very thread alone. I'll leave it at that.

Second (and I believe this is where you took issue with me), I did write a snarky post at #37 and for that I want to apologize to Mr. Gray for doing so. That was not my best work. Although completely true, the wording was less than perfect and for that I'm sorry. I appreciate you coming to Mr. Gray's defense and expressing your thoughts about Mr. Gray, which are outside the scope of material on which I commented. I have no reason to believe Mr. Gray is anything other than how you described him. That his content has been beneficial for you, I am pleased to hear that's the case.

Mature adults can agree to disagree and I hope you have no hard feelings regarding our back-and-forth.

Fair enough, and respect for this.

There's one thing I'd like to offer as well, that was somewhat at the core of my first response, and it's this:

Very few internet forums are able to attract and keep genuine subject-matter experts, especially busy ones, and even more so the ones with a public face and presence. A lot may start getting on a given forum, but they essentially get run off. Mainly, through genuinely unfair or unnecessary criticism and conflict by relative nobodies knowing nothing who spout their opinions as gospel. Top guys just have more important $h*t to do than put up with that, and bounce out for more interesting pastures. It is literally not worth their time to let people throw $h*t at them like that. There's a certain segment of forum people who go out of their way to say unnecessary, negative, and often deeply unfair stuff to that kind of a person, that they just don't with other forum members. And there's also just the people who like stirring crap no matter what.

Your particular comment was mild, comparatively, but I believe it very important for us to cultivate a welcoming environment with top people who spend time here. We shouldn't take every chance to sling criticism or critique. Instead, we'd all benefit from simply treating them as we would a neighbor at a barbeque just talking common interests. More doors are opened with questions than periods, right? And, how often do we get a chance to directly communicate with someone at Cliff Gray's level? It's something to be appreciated.

 

[RockAndSage]

First, I do appreciate the support from folks. but, I'm not offended.

@7mm-08 and many others share an interesting philosophy. some aspects I adamantly disagree with, other aspects are legitimate issues

Eventually it's a topic that I will get on my youtube channel/podcast. but just to be forthright, those episodes will be 100% for clicks...

it's all good

Thanks for spending time here. And thanks for what you do with your channel. No BS - I've learned a lot, and it's improved my hunting. You're making our world a better place, one click at a time.

 

[ProRoad]

Love it! I have used Buffalo Bore in my 10mm bear defense gun for years. Hell I might have to buy a 400 H&H magnum now. Thx Cliff!

 

[Quandary]

So I was working out today and running out of Podcasts to listen to and decided to listen the 2 podcasts Cliff Gray did with Sundles. Sure he is an interesting fella with a gigantic ego but it is really hard for me to say he is wrong about anything he said. To clarify he says directly that there is nothing wrong with small cartridges as long as you are selective in the shots you take. I can't say I disagree with that. He chooses to hunt with really big calibers, his choice.

I particularly agree with everything he says about Wolves, Federal Fish & Wildlife and Federal Forest Service and BLM. He is spot on.

 

[a_noob_hunter]

I thought it was a very interesting podcast and was curious to see how "the slide" recieved it. He definitely speaks with confidence about why he hunts the way he does.

As someone who lives and hunts in western Montana I can understand where he is coming from with the perspective of large calibers. The trend currently is smaller calibers and heavy bullets, which is great, but shot placement is pretty important along with that. My perspective on calibers and bullets has changed alot and I recognize that choosing a caliber is more about understanding your limits than it is about "what is right".

Where we hunt out here you'll be hard pressed to find those truly giant bulls in anything other than thick timber. How Tim describes hunting them in close quarters is how it is here. I've seen multiple 320"+ bulls and it's impossible to get to them outside of tracking them down in the snow in rifle season. I personally am making the switch from .300 rum to 6.5 prc for hunting and wanting to go the lighter caliber route. But I certainly don't disagree with Tim's point on how he hunts. No dip a .416 is gonna do alot more damage and have a lot more forgiveness on shot placement than a 6.5 cm or prc. But then it can't reach out and be shot accurately enough at 500 yds either.

Rather than saying Tim is wrong because he hunts differently in different terrain than others and prefers a different caliber than us, can we not acknowledge that and recognize that there is nothing wrong with it. I try to be open minded and to understand what shapes other people's perspectives. Tim's hunting style is different and he prefers different tools. I wish people would recognize that using a caliber isn't black and white, and would be more open minded.

Cartridge selection is more of a process of understanding your limits than it is about picking the "perfect rifle".

 

[BCDJR]

I enjoyed hearing from someone with actual field experience over several decades. Killing over 100 bull elk and it seems mostly by himself is quite the achievement. He didn’t seem to be a self promoter in this podcast. I felt he simply answered Cliff’s questions. I agree with his comments on killing elk and big older elk as he has done it more than most by a long shot.