Choosing a magnum cartridge

[rabbithuntr]

Even Rokslide provides all sorts of evidence they don’t believe the mini bullet bla bla bla that’s gleeked out the mouths of the most vocal. If a 22 could kill everything, there would be no need for a 6mm forum. If the cult members were happy with how a 6mm kills things, there’s no reason for a 6.5 forum. The hipocr. . .
*chuckle*

Some hunting regulations don’t permit smaller calibers, the creedmores and such have longer reach capabilities, and as mentioned people like variety. I only have center fired rifles in 223.

 

[TaperPin]

Some hunting regulations don’t permit smaller calibers, the creedmores and such have longer reach capabilities, and as mentioned people like variety. I only have center fired rifles in 223.

I wouldn’t argue - that does make you a true believer in my book.

 

[Davyalabama]

One thing the OP said was, “…elk size game with only factory ammo.”

 

[HandgunHTR]

One thing the OP said was, “…elk size game with only factory ammo.”

Your point?

The Black HIlls .223 loaded with 77 grain Sierra TMKs will take an elk, no problem.

 

[tonydl3]

My 6.5 PCR would work but I would rather take the 300 win mag

 

[SW hunter]

Go to your ammo store and see what they have the most boxes of. Pick that caliber.

Last ammo shortage I didnt see 300wsm on a shelf for probably 2 years. Maybe more.

 

[Davyalabama]

Some of these cartridges mentioned may come up short on factory offerings, especially if we have another shortage.

 

[LongWayAround]

If you want to be able to buy a box of ammo anywhere, I would say .300wm with 7rm as a second.

If you want to take advantage of modern bullets, 7 prc.

If you want more recoil than necessary, any of your options will work fine.

The wsm and 7/300 prc would be iffy for ammo in a lot of places. There's plenty available online for order.

 

[RadialJett]

.22 Creedmoor is also a magnum.

So is .17 HMR. And it recoils less, ergo…

 

[Flyjunky]

Your point?

The Black HIlls .223 loaded with 77 grain Sierra TMKs will take an elk, no problem.

Of course it will, as seen here many times. But, the OP said a max range out to 550, and the black hills loaded 77gr tmk lists a mv of 2750 out of a 24” barrel. By quick calculations that pust the max range around 450 yards. Another thing is the low bc of the 77 which has a g7 of .207…more than twice the wind drift at 500 than a 180vr 7mm at moderate mv of 2925.

There’s probably a time and place for the rokslide .223/77 but it gets old when it gets repeated in every conversation no matter what an OP asks.

OP, any of those cartridges will work for your requirements. Find a rifle that fits your budget and feels good to you. All of the ones you listed at LA mag bolt face so you can always get a different barrel/chambering down the line if you want.

 

[The Guide]

Of course it will, as seen here many times. But, the OP said a max range out to 550, and the black hills loaded 77gr tmk lists a mv of 2750 out of a 24” barrel. By quick calculations that pust the max range around 450 yards.

The lot of BH 77tmk ammo I have gives me 2758 fps in a 20" bbl. At 6000' DA I'm at 1800 fps @ 580 yards and at 4000' DA I'm @ 550 yards. So basically, anywhere I've hunted for elk the BH 77tmk load would be sufficient. Is it perfect for all skill levels? Safe to say, no.

In that same sentiment, is a 7mm or 308 caliber magnum the best choice? Not in my opinion. Lots of standard bolt face short and long action cartridges shine at sub 600 yard shots. With less recoil and cheaper ammo those cartridges allow for more real world practicing (which most will never do anyways) and hopefully a better marksman.

If you can't be accurate at 600 yards with a 243, 7mm-08, or a 308 then the magnum version in those calibers aren't going to fix anything for you. In fact, they will make you an even worse marksman.

Jay

 

[Flyjunky]

The lot of BH 77tmk ammo I have gives me 2758 fps in a 20" bbl. At 6000' DA I'm at 1800 fps @ 580 yards and at 4000' DA I'm @ 550 yards. So basically, anywhere I've hunted for elk the BH 77tmk load would be sufficient. Is it perfect for all skill levels? Safe to say, no.

Does everyone hunt elk at 6000’ DA to get those numbers? I got the info of 2750 out of a 24” directly from their site. What if he gets a slower barrel or lot of ammo? You either have a really fast barrel or they have a large lot to lot variation.

In that same sentiment, is a 7mm or 308 caliber magnum the best choice? Not in my opinion.

Maybe, maybe not, but everyone has an opinion. In my opinion, if someone can shoot the 7 or 30 well, I’ll take that every time if for nothing else the wind advantage.

Lots of standard bolt face short and long action cartridges shine at sub 600 yard shots. With less recoil and cheaper ammo those cartridges allow for more real world practicing (which most will never do anyways) and hopefully a better marksman.

I agree, but once again it’s not what the OP asked.

If you can't be accurate at 600 yards with a 243, 7mm-08, or a 308 then the magnum version in those calibers aren't going to fix anything for you. In fact, they will make you an even worse marksman.

Jay

Do you know the OP can’t shoot a magnum well?

 

[giannid]

Been really happy with the 300WSM

 

[roadrunner]

If you had to choose a magnum cartridge (7mm rem mag, 7PRC, 300 win mag, 300PRC, 300wsm) to hunt mostly elk and elk size game with only factory ammo what would you choose and why. Max range being 500-550.

7mm Rem Mag.

You can likely and reliably find a box of factory ammo at a local ACE Hardware should you need one.

You will NOT find a box of factory ammo in 7 PRC, 300 PRC, or 300 WSM reliably at a local ACE Hardware.

You mind might find a box of 300 Win Mag.

You will most likely not find a special round to make a .22 caliber offering even remotely adequate for elk at the same store.

 

[SW hunter]

Your point?

The Black HIlls .223 loaded with 77 grain Sierra TMKs will take an elk, no problem.

Oh, so now because we like to use other stuff, we "don't believe"? I fully believe a 77 grain 22 caliber TMK with an impact velocity above 1800 fps will kill every game animal walking in North America and most of the world. That being said, I also like shooting 120 grain Nosler BTs out of my 7TCU, 123 grain ELDMs out of my 6.5 Grendel, and 147 grain ELDM out of my other 6.5s. Why? Because I can. Do they work "better" than my .223 or .22 Creed shooting the 77s? Nope. But having one rifle is for boring people.

As to the OPs question, a 6.5 PRC is a good choice, but to be honest, given his parameters, a standard cartridge will perform just as good. A 7-08 would be a great choice.

I fully believe in the tooth fairy. I guess we’re both delusional.

Is this 223 thing based on that waste of life trolling thread where nerds recite and argue over numbers and theory and some dudes argue that based on true internet stories they read once its the only gun you need… with special ammo… and special luck… and special unrealistic shots?

No serious person can say with a straight face that in the real world a 223 will do the same stuff those bigger calibers can. Its theoretical. In theory you could hunt and kill elk with a knife or spear. They do physically possess the ability to stop an animals heart. Its just not realistic outside of the internet.

That “223 will take elk no problem” thing is silliness. Thats not grown up talk. Anybody who has spent years shooting at elk knows thats silly talk.

 

[LongWayAround]

@SW hunter maybe "shooting at elk" is the root of your problem.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I fully believe in the tooth fairy. I guess we’re both delusional.

Is this 223 thing based on that waste of life trolling thread where nerds recite and argue over numbers and theory and some dudes argue that based on true internet stories they read once its the only gun you need… with special ammo… and special luck… and special unrealistic shots?

No serious person can say with a straight face that in the real world a 223 will do the same stuff those bigger calibers can. Its theoretical. In theory you could hunt and kill elk with a knife or spear. They do physically possess the ability to stop an animals heart. Its just not realistic outside of the internet.

That “223 will take elk no problem” thing is silliness. Thats not grown up talk. Anybody who has spent years shooting at elk knows thats silly talk.

Exactly how many elk or other large NA game animals have you take or seen taken with a .22 caliber rifle?

Nobody is saying that a .22 caliber bullet will "do all the same things" as a .30 caliber bullet, given similar bullet constructions and similar impact velocities. Also, everyone knows that bullets with higher BCs will buck wind better. What we are saying is that within the performance parameters of you rifle system, you will see no appreciable difference in effectiveness between those two bullets. Both will kill effectively. If the .30 caliber bullet has a higher starting velocity it will kill effectively to a longer distance, yes. Again, that is not what is being stated.
What is also a proven fact is that people shoot lower recoiling rifles better than the do higher recoiling rifles. This is where the true internet warriors come out to tell you that they are in the minority and the rest of us are all pussies. However, the studies done by the US Military and the anecdotal evidence proven out by those of us who shoot a lot or observe a lot of people shooting a lot shows that it is a fact. I also find it interesting that people who claim that they shoot their big guns as well as their small ones won't step up and do the hunter's drills with both and post the results. That or they have a ton of excuses about not having to shoot multiple times at animals or other such nonsense.

I also love how you back-handedly called everyone who posted pictures of dead elk, moose, bears, etc on that thread liars. Are you saying that they didn't kill those animals with .223s or .22 ARC cartridges? Or that their posts of those dead animals that included detailed necropsy photos showing real world shot angles (nothing special or unrealistic about them) are faked? And now people that do it are also not grown ups? Is that what you are implying?

I have said it before and I will say it again, peoples lack of understanding of basic physics and physiology have led them to the point where they truly believe that "energy" somehow kills things that that it takes a lot of it to kill things. It really isn't hard to kill things.

 

[Shawn_Guinn]

So the us military dumped .223 for a larger caliber even they got tired of having to shoot engagements multiple times lol.

 

[Thinkingman]

Am I the only one that read 'Factory ammo only'?
I own a 300WSM and really like it but if I didn't reload, it would probably be a 7PRC.

 

[HandgunHTR]

So the us military dumped .223 for a larger caliber even they got tired of having to shoot engagements multiple times lol.

First of all the US military is limited to FMJ ammo due to Hague Convention rules. When using FMJ, a larger diameter bullet tends to have better terminal performance. Not apples to apples when comparing to hunting bullets.
Second, they were looking for something that was effective to longer ranges. As has been pointed out multiple times, where the larger cartridges become a better choice is when the distances increase. However, how many hunters do you know that are good past 500 yards?
Third, the adoption of suppressors on most infantry weapons systems allows for use of a larger cartridge while still maintaining manageable recoil, thereby allowing for the same statistically level of accuracy.
Finally, the US Military's decisions regarding what is best for troops should never be a standard by which we judge what is "best". The upper brass (decision makers) are pure politicians. There is no doubt about that. Their decisions are fueled by how much their ego has been stroked, how much money the lobbyists spent on them, and how much they will make when they finally retire.

If you want to talk about a subject, you should probably spend some time learning about it rather than spouting conjecture or supposition.