Choice of 7mm for bull elk

[WeiserBucks]

Complete and total bullet vaporization.

Once again, what's the issue? You killed the animals as intended. Controlled expansion, bonded, frag bullets, monos, results are what matter.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Once again, what's the issue? You killed the animals as intended. Controlled expansion, bonded, frag bullets, monos, results are what matter.

Well true, but I eat what I shoot and don't care to chow down on lead for one thing. For another, we are talking about smallish Texas whitetails from Lampasas and Edwards Counties. Not exactly comparable to an elk. Doesn't inspire confidence to me. Does it for you?

 

[WeiserBucks]

Well true, but I eat what I shoot and don't care to chow down on lead for one thing. For another, we are talking about smallish Texas whitetails from Lampasas and Edwards Counties. Not exactly comparable to an elk. Doesn't inspire confidence to me. Does it for you?

I've been shooting elk with fragmenting bullets for a long time with great results. Sometimes I get an exit and many times I don't. The animals die quickly and that's all I care about. I have confidence in killing ability, excessive penetration and exit holes don't factor into my decision making process at all.

 

[streamerfish]

So every bullet will blow right through an elk shoulder no issues? Lol that’s good to know. Glad I got lucky and picked the tsx or partition.

As long as we are eliminating arguments like a .22LR or varmit specific, yeah, basically all of them will go through a elk shoulder.

 

[The big greasy]

As long as we are eliminating arguments like a .22LR or varmit specific, yeah, basically all of them will go through a elk shoulder.

Wasn’t trying to argue, just was replying to the video posed how some like to push how small one can go… I will stick with my partition or tsx just to be on the safe side in case the shot doesn’t happen perfect every time. To the OP if I had to choose, it would be the 7mm rem mag if one can shoot it accurately.

 

[omicron1792]

Complete and total bullet vaporization.

Doesn’t that mean 100% of the energy, aka whallop, ends up in the animal?

 

[BuckSmasher]

Doesn’t that mean 100% of the energy, aka whallop, ends up in the animal?

I hear ya. I think that energy or 'whallop' is an easy and accurate way to compare similar bullets I don't think it alone kills animals. Destruction of vital organs does. Maybe a fragmenting bullet in heavy for caliber bullets doe that in a perfectly still, completely broadside shot. I frequently shoot animals at quartering angles and want the assurance the bullet will get where it needs to. Shot my bull last year at quartering on and below angle with 30-06 168 grain ttsx and bullet shattered humerus, went through the lungs, the diagphram broke and offside rib and cut the hair on the exit side and it fell out in my hand. Fully mushroomed like a x bullet commercial. That is the kind of performance I like.

 

[One300wsm]

Patrick Smith, founder of Kifaru, said this about the hierarchy of killing power decades ago:
1. Shot placement. 2. Shot placement. 3. Shot placement. 4. Use enough bullet. 5. Use enough gun.

This still

Wise man!!!

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I had one similar experience with a 6mm TSX. I shot a small whitetail and had no blood trail at all. I knew I hit it as the distance was about 10 feet from it and 20 feet up in a tree. When I got to the deer, it looked like it had just penciled through. In diagnosing the bullet performance, the bullet entered going 3200fps and stripped the petals off and the shank of the bullet exited. The heart had 5 holes in it. 4 petals (3 were in the heart) and the shank. I do believe you can get these things going too fast. Perhaps this is what you encountered. My father and my one son both use the 165TTSX from their 06s and have not lost a single animal...elk or deer.

Single wound channel in all cases. One heart had a hole through it so small I couldn't even fit my pinky into it. I've written about the experiences numerous times over the years. Animals all died, but very poor wound channels. Deaths have occurred much faster with every single other weapon system and projectile I've used, including archery.

 

[One300wsm]

I honestly don't know what will/will not go through an elk, or through its shoulder. I can 100% honestly testify that I frequently didn't have close range pass throughs on sub 200 pound wild pigs with a 223 firing 62 grain fusions and 62 ttsxs. It stands to reason a 800 lb bull elk is built a lot stouter than a 150 Lb pig.

What really 800 lbs and stouter. If you haven’t figured it out yet you will, on here you try to shoot the biggest animal with the smallest cartridge possible using an explosive match bullet. And when all of that comes together look out. You are absolutely correct!!!

God Bless America for small cartridges, peckers and exploding bullets

 

[streamerfish]

I hear ya. I think that energy or 'whallop' is an easy and accurate way to compare similar bullets I don't think it alone kills animals. Destruction of vital organs does. Maybe a fragmenting bullet in heavy for caliber bullets doe that in a perfectly still, completely broadside shot. I frequently shoot animals at quartering angles and want the assurance the bullet will get where it needs to. Shot my bull last year at quartering on and below angle with 30-06 168 grain ttsx and bullet shattered humerus, went through the lungs, the diagphram broke and offside rib and cut the hair on the exit side and it fell out in my hand. Fully mushroomed like a x bullet commercial. That is the kind of performance I like.

Energy and whallop just needs to leave....except for solid meme's of course.

If destruction of vital organs is what kills animals (totally agree). Then the bullets that do the most destruction to said vitals are the most "lethal" bullets.

It then, logically, stands to reason that the goal, for pure lethality of said bullet, is to penetrate into the chest cavity, with enough penetration to reach both lungs from whatever angle that is punching the chest cavity, and doing as much damage as possible inside said chest cavity. It then is pretty obvious, that bullets of which enter the cavity and fragment like a wild man, are the most lethal bullets. Doesn't mean people have to choose them, doesn't mean their aren't other factors (meat loss like you said), but that is the choice for pure lethality. Whatever people want after that is fine....but irrelevant to killing the animal.

And, I would say, lets just tone it down a bit on the whole, if you don't shoot a "real" hunting cartridge like a 30-06 or 270 type, your unethical type of talk. It's objectively wrong. It just takes away any kind of reasonable nuance to other points you have (like potential meat loss, a reasonable point). At this point the data set on harvesting elk with any cartridge that's all states legal, is overwhelming.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

To the OP...

-Magnum cow elk.
-Daughter shot one time at 185 yards in steady snow. Elk was quartering away. She put it in the crease while aiming at the far front leg.
-Near side rib broken
-Heart and lungs destroyed
-Far side shoulder blade/humerus knuckle shattered
-Bullet and core recovered under far side hide

The load was a 162 ELDX over 46.5 grains of SB 6.5 out of her 18" Tikka T3x. Suppressed MV was 2,628 and impact velocity was ~2,400 fps. The elk took a couple steps right and then left and dropped in original position in less than 3 seconds. I'm not sure on the age or weight of the cow, but I'm 225 and it was far larger than me.

I'm not sure what better bullet performance and killing power looks like.

In contrast, I killed the bull in my profile pic with a .308 and 175 Terminal Ascent at 80 yards. The shot was steep downhill and hit behind the shoulder above the midline on the near side and exited near the farside arm pit. Both lungs and a portion of the heart were damaged. The bullet wasn't recovered. The bull dropped to both front knees, got back up, turned around, and walked 50 yards before falling over.

Its only a sample size of 2, but I much preferred the killing performance of the ELDX.

With a published minimum velocity of 1800 fps for expansion, this ELDX combination is solid to 500 yards and a little farther. Recoil is practically non-existent in a 9 pound rifle with a can and Limbsaver.

Bullet	162.0 gr. Hornady ELD-X (2840) - .284 (7mm)
Muzzle Velocity	fps
Angle of Fire	degrees
Wind Speed	mph
Wind Heading	degrees
Temperature	ºF
Pressure	mmHg
Altitude	feet
Humidity	%
Sight Height	in
Zero Range	yards
Range	Velocity	Elevation	Windage
yards	fps	Mils	Mils
0	2,628.1	0.0	0.0
50	2,562.9	0.0	0.1
100	2,498.7	0.0	0.2
150	2,435.4	-0.2	0.3
200	2,372.9	-0.6	0.4
250	2,311.4	-0.9	0.6
300	2,250.7	-1.3	0.7
350	2,191.0	-1.7	0.8
400	2,132.1	-2.2	0.9
450	2,074.2	-2.6	1.1
500	2,017.2	-3.1	1.2

 

[Shortdraw]

Wow. I went out for lunch and came back to see this thread bounced over to pigs and .223s and all sorts of stuff. I think I'll buy a Trijicon for the 7mag and if I like it, buy another for the 7-08 if I really think the Leopold is that fragile. As to which rifle to bring on the hunt, I assume 160g Accubond from the 7mag will do a bit more damage than the 7-08 with 140g Accubond but how much hiking around I'll be doing may make the final decision. Of course what am I whining about?? I've carried that 7mag for the better part of three decades.

 

[BuckSmasher]

It then is pretty obvious, that bullets of which enter the cavity and fragment like a wild man, are the most lethal bullets. Doesn't mean people have to choose them, doesn't mean their aren't other factors (meat loss like you said), but that is the choice for pure lethality. Whatever people want after that is fine....but irrelevant to killing the animal.

Disagree. Hypothetically vaporizing half of a lung may not even be fatal. Ever. The animal could go on to live a normal life if it survived the recovery.

And, I would say, lets just tone it down a bit on the whole, if you don't shoot a "real" hunting cartridge like a 30-06 or 270 type, your unethical type of talk. It's objectively wrong. It just takes away any kind of reasonable nuance to other points you have (like potential meat loss, a reasonable point). At this point the data set on harvesting elk with any cartridge that's all states legal, is overwhelming.

Also disagree. The elk deserve better than yahoos running after them with 22s because they saw it was possible. Never said it was impossible. My uncle poached deer while trespassing with 22 LR to cut down on noise. Wasn't ethical. I have brought it up several times on this thread but I am from Texas, and from the time I was in my early 20's until I moved up here at age 37 I hunted pigs a LOT. Anywhere from 3 pigs on a slow year to 15-20 on a good year, for over a decade. Dozens killed, maybe or probably over a hundred. Most of those shot with .223 but quite a few with 30-30, 45-70, .308, and 6.5 Grendel. There is a huge and easily discernible difference between shooting a pig with .223 and a 308. HUGE. HUUUGE.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Disagree. Hypothetically vaporizing half of a lung may not even be fatal. Ever.

I also disagree. Not hypothetically, I've actually vaporized half a lung in many elk and and a shit load of deer with fragmenting bullets and they all died quickly. There's a huge difference between shredding a lung with shrapnel vs poking a hole in it.