Charging bear/timed shooting drill

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus how much faster do you think you could run a Blaser straight pull vs standard bolt action?

Definitely under 1sec splits.

 

[gbflyer]

Not particularly as I should not have engaged in the first place. This is a drill thread, not a thread for caliber versus magical beasts. There’s already a thread for that.

However-





Let’s see if I get them in order- More than some, some, no, yes, no, no.

Thank you. Not trying to dilute anyone’s drill thread. Next time you’re up here sometimes guiding brown bears look me up. Maybe I can help.

 

[DangerRanger]

Definitely under 1sec splits.

Have you gotten to play with the beretta brx1

 

[Ozarkansas]

@Formidilosus @ARK_Ginger , I suppose it’s too late to make this a friendly wager? I win if the average time between shots on this site is less than 2 seconds, you win if it’s more?

The best part is that even if I lose it would just mean I’m better at shooting than I thought

 

[ARK_Ginger]

@Formidilosus @ARK_Ginger , I suppose it’s too late to make this a friendly wager? I win if the average time between shots on this site is less than 2 seconds, you win if it’s more?

The best part is that even if I lose it would just mean I’m better at shooting than I thought

I’m up for a friendly wager, but I’ll be surprised if we have enough takers to get an average at this rate.

I’m in the same boat as you though, closer to the 2 seconds than I expected to be.

Might have to break out the 30-30 and 303 Brit for some times just for kicks.

 

[Ozarkansas]

@ARK_Ginger wait, you were way under 2 seconds unless you’ve been talking about TOTAL time all along? Form and I were mainly debating about the time between first and second shot on the other thread

 

[ARK_Ginger]

@ARK_Ginger wait, you were way under 2 seconds unless you’ve been talking about TOTAL time all along? Form and I were mainly debating about the time between first and second shot on the other thread

I’m talking total time. I understood form to say the average total time would be 3-4 seconds vs you saying 2 or under 2 seconds. Correct me if I’m wrong here.

I’m just happy to be closer to the 2 sec than 3 sec on my 223. I will say i suspect if I shot the drill cold with the 30-06 with 220s and a lower mounted scope (so that I couldn’t get the quick chin weld I did for the second shot) I would be closer to 3 seconds.

 

[Luke S]

If my calculation is right (don't have shot clock yet) I'm at 2.02 for two shots from the AR and 3.09 for two from the .308. That is from the beginning of the sound wave (on the video editor) when my son yells "bear" to the second shot. I don't want to even talk about my groups. More "accurate" if you can call it that with the AR15. Definitely a good drill. I need to run some serious dry fire practice.

 

[Formidilosus]

I don't want to even talk about my groups. More "accurate" if you can call it that with the AR15.

Not really directed at you, just using your post for clarification for everyone-

If you aren’t hitting, you’re just wasting bullets. The drill is how fast you get 2 hits consistently. Not how fast someone can sling 2 rounds that miss. If I were willing to accept even 2 rounds total out of 20 missing, my first shot time with the AR would be averaging low 0.50 seconds, and probably in the 0.40 second range; the total time would be around .55 to .60 seconds for two shots.

 

[Luke S]

Yeah no offense taken. I see the value of doing this cold but I'm not going to waste more ammo till I do dry firing for a week or so to get my rhythm down. The two AR hits were bottom of the 8 inch (I think one in, one just out) but reasonably close together. The 308 hits were about 4 inches apart. Maybe using my middle finger for the last shot wasn't such a clever idea. I need to play with that a bit more.

 

[Marbles]

Amateur shot at your question. The red dot will be faster than irons, and a lesser recoiling cartridge will be faster than a heavier one.

Red dots are faster because there are less planes of sight (not sure if that's the correct verbiage). For example standard v notch sights have three planes you're lining up rear, front, and target. Your eyes can only really focus on one. For a red dot it's just the dot and target. With the red dot you can just superimpose the red blob on top of the target vs focusing on front sight while lining up rear and putting on target.

All that said, I'll take a 223 with irons over a 308 with a red dot, simply because the additional recoil takes you off target and costs you time.

@TaperPin beat me. But, basically you shoot it like a handgun in CQD, focus on the front sight, if using a blade rear keep the front sight high. At 7 yards the rear sight is decoration.

Also, what is your experience with aggressive animals that get shot in the face, even if the projectile doesn’t penetrate the brain- do they tend to continue or do they tend to pause/stop?

To paraphrase Duane Dieter, 'Anything can work for you at any time, but we want what will work most of the time.' Put differently, 99 bears out of 100 might stop with a shot to the face that misses the cranial vault, but 1000 out of 1000 will stop with a shot that destroys the CNS.

Ok, I'll stop derailing the drill thread.

 

[PNWGATOR]

Let’s go kill some bears!

Just sayin’.

 

[Ozarkansas]

I’m talking total time. I understood form to say the average total time would be 3-4 seconds vs you saying 2 or under 2 seconds. Correct me if I’m wrong here.

Oh then we’ve definitely been arguing past each other- I was only talking about the time it takes to work the bolt and get the second shot off.
Form was saying that the average total time would be 3-4 seconds, 1 second to get the first shot off, 2-3 seconds to work the bolt and get another round off. I was saying 3 seconds to work the bolt seemed really slow and “the average time between shots would be less than 2 seconds”, with skilled shooters being “around 1 second”.
I then said that the time between shots for me was around 1.5 seconds with my .243 and a bit slower with my swede. To which Form said the number of guys in America who could have a total time of less than 3 seconds- 1.5 seconds to get the first hit, 1.5 seconds to get the second hit- could fit in the average living room

 

[arrow179]

Need to have Jerry Miculek try this and see what the standard for close range fast shooting is!

 

[Formidilosus]

Need to have Jerry Miculek try this and see what the standard for close range fast shooting is!

For this drill, for all 20 hits, he would be about .55-.60 first shot, and .68-.75 second shot.

 

[Formidilosus]

Oh then we’ve definitely been arguing past each other- I was only talking about the time it takes to work the bolt and get the second shot off.
Form was saying that the average total time would be 3-4 seconds, 1 second to get the first shot off, 2-3 seconds to work the bolt and get another round off. I was saying 3 seconds to work the bolt seemed really slow and “the average time between shots would be less than 2 seconds”, with skilled shooters being “around 1 second”.
I then said that the time between shots for me was around 1.5 seconds with my .243 and a bit slower with my swede. To which Form said the number of guys in America who could have a total time of less than 3 seconds- 1.5 seconds to get the first hit, 1.5 seconds to get the second hit- could fit in the average living room

The living room comment was an exaggeration, however- I stated “hits”. Hitting, working the bolt and hitting again in 1.5 seconds is not normal or common, especially with big bore rifles (375 H&H and larger). Yes, people that practice heavily can do so, but how many do that? Outside of shooting schools I have never met a hunter in NA that practices close range, fast shooting heavily with their “bear gun”. They all talk about it, but they don’t do it- same as large bore revolvers.

Notice how only 3 people have shot it- only two of those doing the full 20 rounds. The whole thing revolves around the belief of the American hunter being a “marksman”. Americans hunters don’t shoot, and by and large Americans shooters don’t shoot- the myth of the special person that doesn’t have a timer, doesn’t shoot, doesn’t purposefully practice, can’t spare 20 rounds for a drill- but somehow magically pulls great feats out … yeah no.

 

[gbflyer]

The living room comment was an exaggeration, however- I stated “hits”. Hitting, working the bolt and hitting again in 1.5 seconds is not normal or common, especially with big bore rifles (375 H&H and larger). Yes, people that practice heavily can do so, but how many do that? Outside of shooting schools I have never met a hunter in NA that practices close range, fast shooting heavily with their “bear gun”. They all talk about it, but they don’t do it- same as large bore revolvers.

Notice how only 3 people have shot it- only two of those doing the full 20 rounds. The whole thing revolves around the belief of the American hunter being a “marksman”. Americans hunters don’t shoot, and by and large Americans shooters don’t shoot- the myth of the special person that doesn’t have a timer, doesn’t shoot, doesn’t purposefully practice, can’t spare 20 rounds for a drill- but somehow magically pulls great feats out … yeah no.

Amen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ozarkansas]

@Formidilosus I’m not saying that American hunters are highly skilled, I’m just saying that I, an average American hunter who quite literally won’t spare 20 rounds to practice (my annual centerfire round count would appall you), am capable of 1.5 second splits with all hits. Knowing that, it would be arrogant of me to think that I’m a special case. I think a skilled shooter, like you or like a European hunter who does a lot of driven hunts, would be approaching the 1 second mark.

In other words I think 1.5-2.0 seconds isn’t fast, it’s just mediocre, and skilled shooters will be substantially faster. If a bunch of guys go out to the range this weekend and try it, and they’re all slower than 2 seconds, I’ll happily admit that I’m wrong. Especially since that would also mean I’m an outlier.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

Well the proof is in the pudding. I'll be happy to see the first posting with a magnum, the 30-06 was the biggest I had available to me.

 

[BjornF16]

Notice how only 3 people have shot it- only two of those doing the full 20 rounds. The whole thing revolves around the belief of the American hunter being a “marksman”. Americans hunters don’t shoot, and by and large Americans shooters don’t shoot- the myth of the special person that doesn’t have a timer, doesn’t shoot, doesn’t purposefully practice, can’t spare 20 rounds for a drill- but somehow magically pulls great feats out … yeah no.

Finally ordered a shot timer...