Chapter 3 Sabotless Shooting

Joined
Nov 30, 2012
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Northern Idaho
It was suppose to be cool this morning, so I ran to the Rock Pit to continue my experimenting shooting .50 cal. bullets.

The two bullets that I am working most with right are a couple of Barnes XPB bullets, a .500x275 grain and .500x325 grain bullets. Oddly enough they are not the same diameter. The 325's a about a thousandth less diameter and need to be knurled to load well in my tight Knight Wiseman barrel. And just one thing to verify a friend picked up some .500x275 grain Barnes expanders and they are the same size as the 275 XPB's.

These are the two quality bullets I am experimenting with at the moment. I do also have a box of Speer .50x300grain Deep Curls that feel equally good going down the bore - next I will get some of them shot also...



I did make it to the Rock Pit and it was not near as cool as I thought it might be... I forgot all that Basalt would be retaining the heat they have been collecting for the past several days.

I did decide to you the old Project Rifle again but I have removed the Laminate stock and put a composite stock on it for hunting.

I got the equipment set up and sort of had a plan for todays shooting. My main goal was to check velocities and compare the sabotless loads with the velocity of the 3 test shots using a bullet of near the same weight and a sabot.

I do say that I was somewhat disappointed in my first three shots, although accuracy really was not the goal, but it did and does make me wonder about the condition of the pitted bore on this rifle. The bigger problem was looking into the morning sun. This rifle still has the original hoodless front blade with the copper bead. Without the hood that bead kept showing a really bright star effect - really wish I had a hood. As the sun rose in the morning it become less of a distraction. Actually I want to repeat this whole experiment with a better sun angle... It somewhat worried me that it would get under the sun screens of the Chrono.

Here is a composite picture of the shooting trip and the components.



I really think the shooting this morning shows a lot of promise - wish I had not thrown a couple of the shots - so it would look better, but the velocity is there.



I am hoping to do this same shoot next week using either the new Ultra Lite or the Mountaineer, I have a Kevlar stock coming for it an if it shows up I would have to shoot it.
 

bowinhand

WKR
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Feb 26, 2012
Messages
375
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Colorado
I'm new to muzzle loading, why do you use a shot card/lubed wad with the bullet? I was thinking of using the Thor bullets this year but after seeing the price thought of taking a .50 cal sabot and cutting off the top and gluing the cup to the base of the Barnes 325gr. like a power belt. Although, I can't seem to find any of the pistol bullets locally so I may just go the Thor route.
 
OP
sabotloader
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
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Northern Idaho
I'm new to muzzle loading, why do you use a shot card/lubed wad with the bullet?

Strictly to help hold the pressure under the bullet so that non escapes up the sides of the bore. The Thor has a copper skirt on it that obterates to the bore and does the same thing.

You can see the skirt on the tis Lehigh sabotless...



I was thinking of using the Thor bullets this year but after seeing the price thought of taking a .50 cal sabot and cutting off the top and gluing the cup to the base of the Barnes 325gr. like a power belt. Although, I can't seem to find any of the pistol bullets locally so I may just go the Thor route.

Gluing the base probably would not work... it would or could really screw the aerodynamics of the bullet up. With the Power belt the skirt comes off as soon as it clears the bore of the rifle...
 

bowinhand

WKR
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Messages
375
Location
Colorado
Strictly to help hold the pressure under the bullet so that non escapes up the sides of the bore. The Thor has a copper skirt on it that obterates to the bore and does the same thing.

Thanks sabotloader, where do you get the shot cups? I got a sizing pack of Thors and the .500 dia. fits my cva like the t/c maxi hunters not too tight and leaves light scratches on the Thor. My thoughts on the shot cup is if I need to make a follow up shot that it would be one more thing to worry about.
 
OP
sabotloader
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
1,267
Location
Northern Idaho
Thanks sabotloader, where do you get the shot cups? I got a sizing pack of Thors and the .500 dia. fits my cva like the t/c maxi hunters not too tight and leaves light scratches on the Thor. My thoughts on the shot cup is if I need to make a follow up shot that it would be one more thing to worry about.

The scratches (engravings) are necessary... The concern is do they fit tight enough NOT to slip off the powder during your hunting activities. If you feel good about that the ignition of the powder will push the cup open creating a gas seal.

The shot cards are really intended for flat bottom bullets. They are .125x.510 in size. Here is a picture of them...



Another thing you might consider is a wool wad such as these...



Both of these two products are available from Track of the Wolf

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/173/1

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/173/5/WAD-510-A

Wads...

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/174/1
 
Joined
May 10, 2012
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How would the Ballistic Bridge Sub-Base from MMP perform shooting sabot less? Are they too small in diameter to get a suffiecent gas seal compared to the shot cards?
 
OP
sabotloader
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
1,267
Location
Northern Idaho
How would the Ballistic Bridge Sub-Base from MMP perform shooting sabot less? Are they too small in diameter to get a suffiecent gas seal compared to the shot cards?

Shoot! that is a good suggestion! I will try that - dang! should have thought of that one..

THANKS!
 

30338

WKR
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
1,994
Interesting project. I have a 45 caliber fast twist barrel on my Renegade to do some testing with. Have planned on trying some 410 grain conicals in it first. Might see what happens with some all copper slugs at some point.
 
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