Changing main hunting rifle, what to do?

[Thegman]

Hey, Form. What specifically about the AR keeps it from being a top contender along with bolt guns in your experience? I'm using a bolt ar this year (due to weight and compactness for my east coast/brush hunting) and would like to know what weaknesses I may not be aware of. Thanks.

Long winded response, but I think the answer is much more pertinent with respect to an individual's "general hunting" scenario; that's different for every individual.

If ranges of 400+ yards are fairly regularly part of your general hunting scenarios, a (heavier) bolt rifle makes more sense, probably -a lot- more sense.

For -me- 300ish yards covers 99% of the shots I take. As long as I'm still consistent out to those ranges, other factors come into play much more, like ease of carrying, handling, traveling (rifle easily fits in my suitcase, no extra rifle case baggage), etc.

The results for me, so far, is that after the last 25 or so animals in the last couple of years, my bolt rifles haven't come out of the safe and I'm not passing (or missing) shots I'd take with my bolt rifles. Again, I realize we're not all in the same boat. A great choice for one guy may be an absolutely horrible choice for the next. Sounds like your rifle is doing exactly what you want it to do though.

 

[Highvoltage1]

The 156 is a step up in recoil. I shoot the 140 accubond out of a 6.5 saum, it’s 9.25 lbs and is pleasant to shoot. My 10 year old shoots it just fine. I think a 130 accubond or 129lrx would save you some coin. You can also back the charge off some. Best wishes

 

[texag10]

VV does list a 140gr ELDM load for 6.5-284 with N565, I can give that a go next range trip, the recoil calculator I plugged it in to shows it should be a noticeable drop in recoil. That could be a good stopgap option until I change barrels.

It's hard not to get caught up in the numbers for things like wind drift, but every time I shoot my 12.5"AR with a 1-8 NX8, the reality of very low recoil is too good to ignore.

 

[Marbles]

b

VV does list a 140gr ELDM load for 6.5-284 with N565, I can give that a go next range trip, the recoil calculator I plugged it in to shows it should be a noticeable drop in recoil. That could be a good stopgap option until I change barrels.

It's hard not to get caught up in the numbers for things like wind drift, but every time I shoot my 12.5"AR with a 1-8 NX8, the reality of very low recoil is too good to ignore.

The numbers are tempting, but returns quickly diminish.
Using standard atmospherics at sea level and 10 mph full value wind:
-My 16.5 inch 223 with 77 gr TMKs drifts 38.54 inches at 600 yards: at 300 yards a 15 mph gust can push it 12.44 inches off target.
-My 17 inch 243 with 108 ELDMs drifts 24.94 inches at 600 yards: at 300 yards a 15 mph gust can push it 8.38 inches off target.
-A 7mm mag throwing a 175 ELDX at 2900fps, drifts 16.6 inches at 600 yards: at 300 yards a 15 mph gust can push it 5.76 inches off target (which is still to far off to make a shot on a blacktail/goat in those conditions at that range)

There is a 13.5 inch improvement between the 223 and the 243, though the guns wind number only moves from a 3.5 mph gun to a 5 mph gun. There is only a 8.5 inch improvement going from the 243 to a 7 mag even though the wind number jumps to 7 mph with sea level standard atmospherics.

Conversely, the recoil difference between the 223 and the 243 are minimal in regards to effect on shooting for me. Just stepping up to a 308 throwing 178 gr bullets at 2400 fps (short barrel again) noticeable degrades my shooting, the same rifle in a 7 mag with 175s would certainly be even worse.

I got tempted by numbers recently as I have been spending time in the alpine and seeing heavy winds (have 40 mph plus wind gusts on the 4th with a base wind of 15 to 20). But, after chewing it over, if trying to shoot in those conditions with gusts 25 mph over hold, to avoid more than 4 inches of drift and stay in the vitals of a goat I would have to stalk within:
-223: 130 yards
-243: 160 yards
-7 mag: 190 yards

Recoil (same 8 pound rifle)
-223 has 4.1 ft/lbs for my load
-243 has 10.0 ft/lbs for my load
-7 mag has about 26 ft/lbs (my velocity is probably generous and my recoil is probably low for that velocity as I'm using a 7 PRC case capacity)

A 6.5 throwing a 156 Berger EOL at 2900 fps is only 6.5 mph gun at sea level with standard atmospherics.
Recoil is about 21 ft/lbs.
I'm curious what your MV and recoil energy are with your current 6.5-284 as I'm making guesses at charge weight and MV.

Sorry for the long post, my brain still wants a bigger gun to be markedly better, so crunching all the numbers again helps remind me not to chase BC and stay with 243win/6creed sized cases and not chase wind numbers past a certain point due to diminishing returns.

Most of my hunting takes place between -1000 to 5000 foot density altitude. I'm curious if the same relationship holds at 10,000 ft DA, but as it does not apply to me, I don't feel like plugging in the numbers myself.

 

[2buffalo]

Mine is inlet for a tikka. It is an older stock that I purchased used, I was told it was from right before the company name changed to “allterra”. Certainly possible they have changed since, although that does seem odd to me on a molded stock. I have big hands (grin) so the grip works for me, and having a parallel bottom side would help too, can definitely see why you and others dont like the trigger reach, but Ive found it to handle recoil exceptionally well compared to most other stocks. I really like mine. I guess if theyve changed the stock geometry would be good to know so I can keep my mouth shut if the newer version is different??
Regardless, if the grip doesnt work for the OP then maybe a swap is in order, my statement was only that IF the stock works then upgrading to a different stock wont make the LARGEST difference specifically in spotting shots when the other alternative is rebarreling to a 6cm or similar.


View attachment 732429

It hasn't changed. I have one from earlier this year.

 

[texag10]

A 6.5 throwing a 156 Berger EOL at 2900 fps is only 6.5 mph gun at sea level with standard atmospherics.
Recoil is about 21 ft/lbs.
I'm curious what your MV and recoil energy are with your current 6.5-284 as I'm making guesses at charge weight and MV.

Sorry for the long post, my brain still wants a bigger gun to be markedly better, so crunching all the numbers again helps remind me not to chase BC and stay with 243win/6creed sized cases and not chase wind numbers past a certain point due to diminishing returns.

Most of my hunting takes place between -1000 to 5000 foot density altitude. I'm curious if the same relationship holds at 10,000 ft DA, but as it does not apply to me, I don't feel like plugging in the numbers myself.

My gun is shooting the 156s at 2850 fps. Most of my hunting is above 7k, mostly 8-10, and it's a 9-10mph gun up there. My nerd brain likes 10mph, and the antelope I shot with the 6.5-284 barrels I potentially would've missed due to a wind in my face turning 90* about halfway to the animal on the ~460yd shot.

The real answer is to shoot more, and less recoil certainly makes that more pleasant. I'll shoot it with 140s, then it'll get a 6mm CM barrel next hunting season or the one after.

 

[KenLee]

I’m not trying to be a jerk here- are you properly adjusting the diopter to your eye?

There is no functional difference between the glass clarity and brightness of those SWFA’s and a Trijicon, Maven, NF, etc at the same power.

Yes I adjusted anything which would adjust
I'll try to give examples of my perception of their glass quality that most folks who have been around hunting rifles for decades would relate to.
10x = Vari-x II
6X = VX-II
3-9X HD = VX-R , which seem to me to fit in somewhere between VX-2 and VX-3.
No I'm not a Leupold fanboy, just been using many different scopes over the last 40 years and know these lines of Leupolds are scattered everywhere.

 

[6.5x284]

I’d shoot the barrel out as is and rebarrel to a 6 that lets you use existing dies later. Work on building your shooting position well and you’ll be able to spot impacts.


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[texag10]

Update on this, I went to the range with a new load using 140s instead of 156s and a milder powder charge. Very pleasant to shoot, but still not spotting hits. I will probably shoot out this barrel, then switch to a 6mm of some flavor. I realize I can just sell the VV N565 I have, so 6GT seems attractive as I could use Varget for it and my 5.56 ARs.