Change from Fixed Broadheads

[Quailchaser410]

Quailchaser 410, I did realize you were shooting missiles. I guess you’re right it must take an unreasonable trade off to have an arrow to bust through an elk. I don’t know how this exit photo from last week could be possible. That sucks you lost your elk!

You don't know how...? Well, I thought you were the expert? I'll tell you how. You shot the elk. And the arrow passed through because you didn't hit the shoulder knuckle. Doesn't seem too complicated to me. Hope this helps.

Now I asked for anyone to share experience of negative experiences with adding a bleeder or shooting a wider broadhead. It seems as if you either don't have experience with this, or aren't intending on sharing so furthur comment from you is unsolicited.

 

[Bump79]

@Quailchaser410 what is your full setup like? Draw length, weight, bow IBO?

The downside of a really big broadhead is flight. They get weird.. You have to shoot one that is shorter or vented to get flight to be acceptable IMHO.

But a vented 2 blade Iron Will Wide SB with Bleeders is a solid choice. Vents make a head super loud generally though.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of the Contact Archery MD3 S7 tool steel 1.25" 3 blade.

MD3

Machined from S7 tool steel the 125 grain MD3 features a 1.25 inch cutting diameter. Sold in packs of 3. Weights will be 125 grains +/- 1 grain. 3 packs will be matched within .25 grains.

contact-archery.com

Their VBS is good too. 1.25" main blade and .75" bleeder.

VBS

The Variable Blade System™ (or VBS™ for short) allows for a shooter to tailor cutting size and weight to their preferences. Concave blades lend themselves to an efficient cut while still stretching the hide to maximize blood on the ground.The blade portion that covers the shaft/insert is 0.313...

contact-archery.com

Simmons Mako is a good choice.

Mako™ - 125 Grain (3 pack)

Mako - 125 Grain SB-125R

www.simmonssharks.com

I'm shooting a Terra Firma 3 Blade SB 100 this year 1-1/32" cut 3 blade. This pic is of the 125.

 

[Quailchaser410]

@Quailchaser410 what is your full setup like? Draw length, weight, bow IBO?

My set up is fine. I got one of those new Matthews and I shoot 30.5" and 70#. What I'm thinking about is decreasing my penetration potential by adding a bleeder or shooting a wide blade broadhead.

To get a pass through on the shoulder knuckle, I believe I'd need an african dangerous game type set-up... 1000+ grains with a grizzly Stik ashby head. I'm not doing that. So, I'm considering increasing the tissue damage potential i.e. bleeder and or wide head.

 

[Bump79]

My set up is fine. I got one of those new Matthews and I shoot 30.5" and 70#. What I'm thinking about is decreasing my penetration potential by adding a bleeder or shooting a wide blade broadhead.

To get a pass through on the shoulder knuckle, I believe I'd need an african dangerous game type set-up... 1000+ grains with a grizzly Stik ashby head. I'm not doing that. So, I'm considering increasing the tissue damage potential i.e. bleeder and or wide head.

I agree. You've already got a real hammer.

I edited my post above with a few good options I've shot you might be interested in that still fly well.

 

[sndmn11]

I still don't understand why with a compound bow at the height of bow tuning, awesome arrow and broadhead availability that we're still worried about penetration so much.

Because it can be a scapegoat for poor placement and poor tuning.

"I shot the elk outside the vitals, but if only _______ equipment had performed better..."

 

[doc holiday13]

@Quailchaser410 Truly, I think your experience is statistical anomaly. If it was a quartering away then you very likely hit both lungs but didn't get a pass thru.. The elk probably died but you had nothing to go on for tracking.. Its definitely a confidence killer. I think adding bleeders or moving to a 3 blade is your best option if you're trying to change things. Keep cut-on-contact as a criteria for broadheads

 

[Quailchaser410]

@Quailchaser410 Truly, I think your experience is statistical anomaly. If it was a quartering away then you very likely hit both lungs but didn't get a pass thru.. The elk probably died but you had nothing to go on for tracking.. Its definitely a confidence killer. I think adding bleeders or moving to a 3 blade is your best option if you're trying to change things. Keep cut-on-contact as a criteria for broadheads

The only reason I don't think I got both lungs is we (me and two others) gridded for 12 hours the following day.

 

[Dennis]

Now I asked for anyone to share experience of negative experiences with adding a bleeder or shooting a wider broadhead. It seems as if you either don't have experience with this, or aren't intending on sharing so furthur comment from you is unsolicited.

Just so we are clear you asked for suggestions on why your perfect arrow set up failed. I tried to help by offering my negative experience with blade width and or bleeder blades which isn't negative or positive but neither changed my harvest rate. Thanks unsolicited.

 

[dallas.kc]

Hate to sound like a shill but if you are interested in shooting something wider and heavier I have some Iron Will Wides, 200g, vented in the classifieds right now.


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[dallas.kc]

Shot them out of both my compound and my recurve at one time. Went to a little lighter setup since I only shoot 48# and have the draw length of a garden gnome. Needed my gaps to be smaller


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[Quailchaser410]

Just so we are clear you asked for suggestions on why your perfect arrow set up failed. I tried to help by offering my negative experience with blade width and or bleeder blades which isn't negative or positive but neither changed my harvest rate. Thanks unsolicited.

Ha. false. Go back and look at what I said.

Can you guys share some experiences of bleeders or wide single bevels that you have had? Pros and cons?

My arrow set up didn't fail, as I stated it was a bad shot. You, in fact, didn't offer any experience using anything I was asking about. You just erroneously asserted I need more penetration. Even though I had 22" of penetration and impacted the shoulder knuckle on the opposite side. A 700 gr arrow wouldn't have done squat to change that.

My question was about trading off the excess penetration in order to increase tissue damage and what experiences people could share for or against that thought.

 

[Jethro]

Hit the shoulder knuckle on the opposite side

How do you know that?

 

[dallas.kc]

To answer your question, I shot the cutthroats the first couple years I hunted. They obviously work, but if you watch enough broadhead videos they all work. I personally switched from single bevels to heads that cause more trauma, like the three blade VPA or RMS gear, or the iron wills. This year is the first time I’m ever hunting with a mechanical, and I specifically like the idea behind the evolution outdoors heads because they have a fixed blade style head in the front in case the mechanical portion fails. I’ve had one “failure” with these three blades when I shot too far forward with my recurve. I don’t think a single bevel would have saved me, but the amount of blood I’ve seen from those three blades and iron wills with bleeders makes me feel confident that causing trauma is my focus. That’s my $0.02, which might not be worth much with inflation.


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[dallas.kc]

An interesting example of a one lung hit with a single bevel is from the Hunting Public’s page the other day where the deer did die, but it took it several hours and he moved a good ways before biting the dust. I know that’s not an elk like you’re talking about, but an interesting real world case nonetheless. Would three blades or bleeders have been better? That’s the problem, unless you have a Time Machine and can go back, replace the head that was shot with something else, it’s hard to say for sure given the number of variables and specific situations.

I had a doe twist hard on me when I was shooting those wide iron wills with bleeders out of my recurve and I ended up hitting her pyloric artery in her back ham. She ran 65 yards and died. Did the extra width or bleeders save me? I don’t know, maybe.


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[Quailchaser410]

To answer your question, I shot the cutthroats the first couple years I hunted. They obviously work, but if you watch enough broadhead videos they all work. I personally switched from single bevels to heads that cause more trauma, like the three blade VPA or RMS gear, or the iron wills. This year is the first time I’m ever hunting with a mechanical, and I specifically like the idea behind the evolution outdoors heads because they have a fixed blade style head in the front in case the mechanical portion fails. I’ve had one “failure” with these three blades when I shot too far forward with my recurve. I don’t think a single bevel would have saved me, but the amount of blood I’ve seen from those three blades and iron wills with bleeders makes me feel confident that causing trauma is my focus. That’s my $0.02, which might not be worth much with inflation.


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Thanks. This is good info. I don't think I can make myself shoot expandables but I may start using bleeders.

 

[180ls1]

With your setup, adding more cutting diameter is warranted. I would try it.

 

[Quailchaser410]

How do you know that?

Well, I didn't get the chance to autopsy; however, I made this assumption from the following observations:
1. I saw the impact of the arrow.
2. I got about 22" of penetration.
3. I saw the offside flank to confirm no pass through.
4. I heard the arrow impact solid bone after the initial thud.
5. In my opinion a rib or scapula would not the penetration-favoring set-up.

 

[dallas.kc]

Thanks. This is good info. I don't think I can make myself shoot expandables but I may start using bleeders.

I totally get it. I’m still a little leery. That’s why I’ve got three blades in the quiver as well lol.


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