Canada Border

[tdot]

No offense taken. No "disdain" here. I love Canada and it fine people. I have a ton of friends up there, mostly in the hunting industry and it saddens me to see them "crippled" by the closure. Your post shows me this is still as "political" as it is anything. Too bad our leadership are totally on opposite ends of the spectrum. Trump a Wild Card and Trudeau as liberal as they come. In the end, I think we are still "allies". We have too much in common, not to be. If the closure is truly about the virus, lets get the immediate testing in place and open our borders. While the hunting industry may be a "drop in the bucket" up there, a ton of good people are suffering North of the border due to the closure.

I didn't mean to imply there was disdain coming from you personally, for the most part the community on Rokslide reflects how I would expect our two countries to feel towards each other. But even here on Rokslide, I've read comments that made my jaw drop. Things that I never would have expected to hear from an American, much less from Americans who travel and actually leave the confines of the US borders occasionally.

The US has politicized the virus to such an extent that absolutely there is a political apect relating to any decision regarding the Virus. But strangely, up here on Canada, I don't see a fraction of the politicalization of the virus. Generally I am appalled by our leader and I actually think he is more inept then Trump and in some ways more dangerous/deceitful. So this isn't a partisan attack. But up here we are going about our business for the most part and life while it has changed, doesn't appear as crazy as it seems in the US.

My wife is an ER doc, and during the early stages of the pandemic every single person who tested positive for Covid at her hospital had contracted it in the US. I know of Docs in 3 different provinces who experienced the same thing. Combine that with a major problem of people testing negative while showing symptoms and then later testing positive. Or asymptomatic carriers testing negative, but potentially spreading the virus. There is a very strong sentiment in the medical community to keep the borders closed as well. There is simply too great a disparity between the sizes of the 2 populations. Even with the small number of Americans who are allowed to transit our province to get to Alaska, there have been numerous infractions of Americans not following the rules. To allow a huge influx of people in, that even with testing will have some carriers, simply doesn't make sense.

The hunting community has been hurt pretty bad by the border closure. But within the general business community, I know of more businesses that are thriving with the closures, then are hurt. So the economic argument isn't gaining as much traction up here as I would have expected.

My biggest concern about the border closure centers around the mental health of many Canadians. The winters up here aren't the easiest and there are alot of people who escape South for atleast a portion of the winter. While people can absolutely get through without traveling South, they arent used to it. Only time will tell how well everyone handles it.

 

[Kotaman]

I didn't mean to imply there was disdain coming from you personally, for the most part the community on Rokslide reflects how I would expect our two countries to feel towards each other. But even here on Rokslide, I've read comments that made my jaw drop. Things that I never would have expected to hear from an American, much less from Americans who travel and actually leave the confines of the US borders occasionally.

The US has politicized the virus to such an extent that absolutely there is a political apect relating to any decision regarding the Virus. But strangely, up here on Canada, I don't see a fraction of the politicalization of the virus. Generally I am appalled by our leader and I actually think he is more inept then Trump and in some ways more dangerous/deceitful. So this isn't a partisan attack. But up here we are going about our business for the most part and life while it has changed, doesn't appear as crazy as it seems in the US.

My wife is an ER doc, and during the early stages of the pandemic every single person who tested positive for Covid at her hospital had contracted it in the US. I know of Docs in 3 different provinces who experienced the same thing. Combine that with a major problem of people testing negative while showing symptoms and then later testing positive. Or asymptomatic carriers testing negative, but potentially spreading the virus. There is a very strong sentiment in the medical community to keep the borders closed as well. There is simply too great a disparity between the sizes of the 2 populations. Even with the small number of Americans who are allowed to transit our province to get to Alaska, there have been numerous infractions of Americans not following the rules. To allow a huge influx of people in, that even with testing will have some carriers, simply doesn't make sense.

The hunting community has been hurt pretty bad by the border closure. But within the general business community, I know of more businesses that are thriving with the closures, then are hurt. So the economic argument isn't gaining as much traction up here as I would have expected.

My biggest concern about the border closure centers around the mental health of many Canadians. The winters up here aren't the easiest and there are alot of people who escape South for atleast a portion of the winter. While people can absolutely get through without traveling South, they arent used to it. Only time will tell how well everyone handles it.

Thanks for the dialogue and the perspective from the North.

I believe Canadians can still come South, but they have to fly. I know of a few Canadians that have flown into the States and back home again. Land border is closed but I believe Canadians can still fly here and back. (I’m sure there’s quarantine rules upon re-entry)...

 

[tdot]

Thanks for the dialogue and the perspective from the North.

I believe Canadians can still come South, but they have to fly. I know of a few Canadians that have flown into the States and back home again. Land border is closed but I believe Canadians can still fly here and back. (I’m sure there’s quarantine rules upon re-entry)...

Quarantine rules are supposed to be in place in both directions for Canadians, as far as I know. I know of a few people who have gone south, but it's tough when you have to add 2 weeks on both sides of the trip. I understood Americans had the same rights coming North. I actually know more Americans who've made the journey up here, but many are staying for extended periods of time (3 months+), so they have time to isolate and maybe the rules are different for them.

 

[Devin96]

Maybe I can shed some light on this as I have experienced this first hand.

Canadians can travel to the US via plane, I just got back (I had a hunt). I was able to take a covid test as soon as I landed in Canada, I was also given 2 follow up tests to take on day 7 and day 14. I'm currently in isolation I had to give an isolation plan to Health Canada who sharing it with the local police. They have verified that I'm where I said I would be in the plan.

As far as the hunting industry (outfitting) is concerned it is not devastated. Most outfitters either decided to not operate this year or if they did they are taking Canadians.

The borders being closed has little impact on the average Canadian so the vast majority (last poll I saw was 75%) want to keep the border closed well into 2021. I don't see it opening back up before the end of the year.

Just my thoughts....

 

[kvw4x4]

It’s very political. Last year Canadians spend 19 billon dollars in the us. All that money is staying in Canada with the border being closed, They have the virus just like us. Every country does.

 

[tsm213]

I live in Saskatchewan. We have just over a million people and have had 189515 COVID tests. There are 138 active cases today. We are getting back to normal as far as schools and such. Having 3 kids it’s more important to me to keep them going than opening boarders. It’s not that I wouldn’t like to see hunters come up but I don’t want things to slow down again. It’s no secret that most new cases come if from travel up here.


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[Kotaman]

I live in Saskatchewan. We have just over a million people and have had 189515 COVID tests. There are 138 active cases today. We are getting back to normal as far as schools and such. Having 3 kids it’s more important to me to keep them going than opening boarders. It’s not that I wouldn’t like to see hunters come up but I don’t want things to slow down again. It’s no secret that most new cases come if from travel up here.


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There's a good testing example:

SASK: 1,100,000 Population - 189,515 Tests - 138 Active Cases
North Dakota: 760,000 Population - 631,041 Tests - 3651 Active Cases (total positives to date - 21,000)

This is a very small example as Sask and ND are largely rural but the US has gone "test crazy". All this random testing is crazy.

 

[kvw4x4]

There's a good testing example:

SASK: 1,100,000 Population - 189,515 Tests - 138 Active Cases
North Dakota: 760,000 Population - 631,041 Tests - 3651 Active Cases (total positives to date - 21,000)

This is a very small example as Sask and ND are largely rural but the US has gone "test crazy". All this random testing is crazy.

its like duh the US has more cases the US is doing way more testing.

 

[Blockcaver]

Washington at 7.5 million population has 2,222 covid deaths to date. BC at 5 million population has 234 covid deaths to date. Fairly dramatic difference without offering up any math.

That said, I'll sure be happy when we can travel by vehicle to the US to go Coues deer hunting and visiting our daughter. Also when the border into Nunavut and the NWT opens as my two out of province 2020 caribou hunts were deferred into 2021, same as an Americans were.

 

[Kotaman]

Washington at 7.5 million population has 2,222 covid deaths to date. BC at 5 million population has 234 covid deaths to date. Fairly dramatic difference without offering up any math.

That said, I'll sure be happy when we can travel by vehicle to the US to go Coues deer hunting and visiting our daughter. Also when the border into Nunavut and the NWT opens as my two out of province 2020 caribou hunts were deferred into 2021, same as an Americans were.

That's fairly dramatic, UNTIL you see that virtually every death in the US is a Covid death. When hospitals and nursing homes are getting paid for "Covid" deaths, EVERYTHING is covid. I do believe there is less in Canada, however, we will never know the true numbers. Those death numbers are probably closer together than any of us realize.

 

[tdot]

That's fairly dramatic, UNTIL you see that virtually every death in the US is a Covid death. When hospitals and nursing homes are getting paid for "Covid" deaths, EVERYTHING is covid. I do believe there is less in Canada, however, we will never know the true numbers. Those death numbers are probably closer together than any of us realize.

That is still a US problem unfortunately. Whether it is caused by the reality that the Virus is widespread (which it is) or the perception that it is widespread (which appears to be based on some truth and then blown up based on assumptions, heresay and creative extrapolation). Either way it is a US problem with the Virus.

You guys internally can debate all you want about the minutiae, blame red or blue politics, whatever you choose. But you guys have the freedom to choose and America has chosen to be in the position it is in. No other country has done this to the US, and don't be upset if other countries dont want to follow you down this rabbit hole.

Rapid testing isnt the panacea that will suddenly change all that.

 

[mtnbiker208]

most canadians don't really care for the USA. they follow our politics more than we do. But the border canadians absolutely love our prices on goods.

Definately 2 different countries, gravy on everything, come on now! But i will say the bakeries in the Kootenays are phenominal.

 

[ericthered]

It seems that when a sovereign nation executes its right to security it is applauded by the U.S. and its citizens as showing the values of freedom and democracy that are valued by them.

Unless it interferes with U.S. goals. Then it is seen as not meeting those high ideals and is therefore something to be attacked.

The U.S. government has destroyed more of the Canadian economy in the last eight years than COVID.

Interference in our domestic oil production, tariffs on our steel and aluminum (as well as removing Canadian firms from bidding on projects under "America First" policies) and softwood lumber disputes. The list goes on.

Forget the meager sums from hunting and fishing revenue. That is a drop in the bucket that 99% of Canadians don't even reflect on yet care about.

Don’t forget your currency manipulation. But with NAFTA gone, that may not be enough for CND to keep US manufacturing. My point is all countries do what they can to give themselves an advantage. Look, we don’t make the rules, we just play the game.

 

[tdot]

most canadians don't really care for the USA. they follow our politics more than we do. But the border canadians absolutely love our prices on goods.

Definately 2 different countries, gravy on everything, come on now! But i will say the bakeries in the Kootenays are phenominal.

Where are you getting the idea that most Canadians don't care for the US? I'd say that is generally wrong, I dont think I know of any Canadians with a problem with Americans. Whether they are from border towns or not.

Are you saying you don't put gravy on everything???

 

[tater]

Don’t forget your currency manipulation. But with NAFTA gone, that may not be enough for CND to keep US manufacturing. My point is all countries do what they can to give themselves an advantage. Look, we don’t make the rules, we just play the game.

I'm not saying that countries don't "do what they have to do" (mine included). You just made my point for me in relation to COVID response. We have been and are doing what the nation feels it must. And a lot of folks on this site are expressing dismay at that. I'm just pointing out the "our way or the highway" mentality that is so prevalent.

Sidebar:

U.S. Manufacturing? You mean to tell me that there are a lot of U.S. based companies that manufacture in Canada rather than Mexico or Asia? C'mon.

Other than a few legacy automotive plants that are so heavily subsidized by tax incentives to keep Ontario and Quebec happy and voting what else is there? Our labour rates and tax structure have made mass manufacturing exodus a way of life for the last thirty years.

Don't forget: the majority of manufacturing is based in the East, and there is a LARGE difference in economic reality and values here between the East and the West.

As far as the previous post around Canadians not liking Americans, i think you will find that urban based Liberal elites (particularly in the East) here carry a false sense of superiority to Americans. Just as Americans have their national myths of creation, so do Canadians. Doesn't mean a person has to buy into the b.s.

In my previous work life i had the opportunity to work with Americans from probably 35 of the 50 states. Always appreciated the experience, and never had a negative word to say.

Those of us that work for a living and are close to the land realize that we are the most tightly tied two countries in the World culturally, economically and socially.

 

[swehrman]

Where are you getting the idea that most Canadians don't care for the US? I'd say that is generally wrong, I dont think I know of any Canadians with a problem with Americans. Whether they are from border towns or not.

Are you saying you don't put gravy on everything???

 

[mtnbiker208]

Tater
I need to clarify. I have spent alot of time in BC. Mainly recreation, whitewater kayaking, mtn biking and lots of snowmobiling. I have mainly found the citizens to be great people. However, Canuks usually bring up some sort of USA politics, that i have nothing to do with. Your post are a perfect example, you like the people and give off the impression you don't care for the country. I hope that makes sense.

A few years back i was in Golden and i though it would be good to treat my wife to a nice dinner. We both ordered prime rib. We both where , wtf when it showed up with gravy on it. Personally i would love to have a place in new denver or blue lakes off of the cassiar.

 

[tater]

mtnbiker, i care for the people and the country both (they are intertwined). I am nothing if not up front. If hated Americans or America i would state that right from the get go and let the chips fall where they did.

It's the extremes of the jingoistic rhetoric that is prevalent EVRYWHERE in the World these days, (my country included) that i don't get. We are all at the mercy of the selective narratives that our governments have fostered and fed us all over the years. If someone is not willing to explore that sentiment from a cognitive rather than emotional place there is nothing i can do with that.

I really don't pay attention to politics (i don't even own a tv or have cell service at home), but i pay attention to history and economics. I liken the historical relationship between our two countries as siblings that were able to fight because they knew that the relationship would be intact no matter what. That is what i no longer see from our governments or some residents of either country.

Just for clarity, if a slab of red meat is not blue rare and there is gravy ANYWHERE on the plate it is a travesty and someone should be taken behind the wood shed. For future reference Cranbrook is a better place for buying a good slab of beef, and New Denver has too many soap dodgers for my taste.

 

[mtnbiker208]

tater


I believe we are saying the same thing in different ways.

Funny on the soap avoiders, a buddy and i have always heard a slogan about the slocan vallery. go as slow as you can.