Can Colorado OTC Elk Last Forever?

[specneeds]

Wolves reintroduced then hunted the 2nd year in might do it for sustaining otc tags. In my family hunting area outlawing hunting mtn lions has resulted in 6 female lions living on one mountain with males visiting in season- deer numbers are way down. Wolves in CO will likely decimate the elk herd & kill the golden goose. I’m thinking Nevada & Oregon for futures seasons.

 

[NateK]

I personally think OTC in some instances is sustainable. In units with lots of private escapement or a similar situation I believe the more hunters you get crammed in there the faster the elk leave the public and you really don't end up killing significantly more elk. If you severely limit these units and drop hunter numbers from 1,200+ to 300 or or 400 how significantly will harvest be reduced? I'm going to guess it won't be a big drop. Yeah, the hunter experience sucks with 1,200 guys out there but guys like me still drive 20 hours and pay nearly $800 to bump elbows with 1,199 other guys for a week.

I am not entirely opposed to the idea of how Wyoming does their general hunts. Colorado could make nonresidents apply for a limited quota of "general" tags in what are currently OTC units while residents could still buy their tags OTC. Nonresidents still burn 3 points for a Wyoming tag to hunt units with tons of local pressure... Obviously Colorado would have to find a way to make up the income loss by raising application/point fees. If I really had a problem waiting to draw a tag I could always move to said state and hunt every year.

I am not saying that either of these options are what should happen but I do think they are reasonable.

 

[gbflyer]

On a side note… anyone remember when OTC elk started in Colorado? It’s been going on for a long time.

Edit: after thinking about it, I’m assuming all licenses were OTC to begin with? Maybe the better question is when did limited draw areas come into existence? I think when I started hunting 35 years ago you could get a unit 61 bull tag for just a couple points.

My family hunted in 61 before it was a draw area. I’m 49. My dad drew there the first year it was draw only. Must have been early 1980’s. I drew a cow 2 years ago with 2 points as I am now a nonresident and won’t live long enough to draw a bull there.

 

[Ucsdryder]

A word of caution, any capping of NRs (I am NR (former Res) and in favor of caps) will almost certainly spike the cost of Res OTC tags

Good. Bring it on. A damn concert at red rocks is 200 dollars, let’s see some 150 dollar licenses with a reduction in the NR.

 

[Laramie]

I personally think OTC in some instances is sustainable. In units with lots of private escapement or a similar situation I believe the more hunters you get crammed in there the faster the elk leave the public and you really don't end up killing significantly more elk. If you severely limit these units and drop hunter numbers from 1,200+ to 300 or or 400 how significantly will harvest be reduced? I'm going to guess it won't be a big drop. Yeah, the hunter experience sucks with 1,200 guys out there but guys like me still drive 20 hours and pay nearly $800 to bump elbows with 1,199 other guys for a week.

I am not entirely opposed to the idea of how Wyoming does their general hunts. Colorado could make nonresidents apply for a limited quota of "general" tags in what are currently OTC units while residents could still buy their tags OTC. Nonresidents still burn 3 points for a Wyoming tag to hunt units with tons of local pressure... Obviously Colorado would have to find a way to make up the income loss by raising application/point fees. If I really had a problem waiting to draw a tag I could always move to said state and hunt every year.

I am not saying that either of these options are what should happen but I do think they are reasonable.

I some areas I have studied, the number of elk harvested actually went up when the number of licenses were drastically reduced- areas going to LQ. Unpressured elk are exponentially easier to kill.

 

[CoHiCntry]

My family hunted in 61 before it was a draw area. I’m 49. My dad drew there the first year it was draw only. Must have been early 1980’s. I drew a cow 2 years ago with 2 points as I am now a nonresident and won’t live long enough to draw a bull there.

Yeah, you’re probably right. I would have guessed early 80’s. I think I first hunted unit 61 around 87? Can’t remember if you had to be 12 or 14 back then to hunt so I’m not positive on the year. My grandpa started hunting there in the 50’s & talks about the first time he saw an elk because it was mule deer country back then and no elk.

 

[TheNorris]

Good question and great conversation. I am a southeast tree stand hunter. The Colorado OTC program is going to be my first shot at western hunting. I hope the CO OTC program stays as is. For people like me that aren’t familiar with the process of acquiring tags in these areas it removes a lot of self imposed barriers. Probably shouldn’t be the case but it’s true.

 

[CJohnson]

Nothing lasts forever. But, I don't understand why NRs still hunt OTC units in Colorado when you can apply for a unit with 100% draw odds and at least cut down on some of the competition. I feel like OTC is more of a convenience for residents and maybe NRs from bordering states. I can't imagine a situation that I drive from SC on a whim to hunt an OTC unit.

 

[ColoradoV]

Does it need to go the way of the dodo? Yes otc hunting should be eliminated for a entire host of reasons..

Still laughable to me folks even mention point creep for elk when you can hunt every year and gain a point. Going to draw only, using your points on any elkand moving to a 80-20 split would be fair and basically eliminate point creep..

Raise the prices 3x for residents and non residents alike = a few might fall out but most folks are like me and will be more than happy to pay to play.

 

[dtowneclipse]

The beauty of an OTC tag is that it can be bought literally over the counter at any point before or during the season. Meaning, lots of guys make last minute decisions and show up to hunt and buy a tag. If you limit it to first come, first serve, you're limiting tags to hunter who are planning ahead to make that trip, i.e. more serious hunters, vs the "hey I think I'll go elk hunting tomorrow" guys who show up and buy tags. Just a thought.

My dad has hunted OTC Colorado the past 40 years, and I've hunted the past 5 years (we're NR). We always bought our OTC tags way ahead of elk season during the lottery period. Our unit switched over to lottery last year with all of the other SW OTC units, but nothing has really changed for us as the lottery is almost 100% odds. BUT now, requiring us to apply for it instead of just showing up whenever to buy it OTC has weeded out all the "last minute deciders" and guys who didn't draw elsewhere so settled on Colorado OTC.

HAHA. Look at the draw results for area 711 2/3rd seasons for cow tags.......I wouldn't call that 100%.....

Used to take 1-2 PP to draw....took 5-6 this year.

 

[isocyanate]

Does it need to go the way of the dodo? Yes otc hunting should be eliminated for a entire host of reasons..

Still laughable to me folks even mention point creep for elk when you can hunt every year and gain a point. Going to draw only, using your points on any elkand moving to a 80-20 split would be fair and basically eliminate point creep..

Raise the prices 3x for residents and non residents alike = a few might fall out but most folks are like me and will be more than happy to pay to play.

So a NR Either sex should cost 2064.78? Yeah, you'd lose me on OTC for sure, but I could see spending that on a good unit with a large number of animals. I'm not to the point where I care about killing giant trophy bulls. Just want to hunt elk to eat.

 

[dtowneclipse]

Good. Bring it on. A damn concert at red rocks is 200 dollars, let’s see some 150 dollar licenses with a reduction in the NR.

$150.00 Res license? Hilarious. You realize how much money NR brings into CO? Not just in license fees, but in the tax dollars for everything else we buy while in CO.

You reduce NR by a significant amount, go ahead and get ready for $300+ Res license fees.

 

[Wapiti16]

HAHA. Looks at the draw results for area 711 2/3rd seasons for cow tags.......I wouldn't call that 100%.....

Used to take 1-2 PP to draw....took 5-6 this year.

I’m talking about archery.


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[CoStick]

With the changing demographics out west, states will be become more efficient at monetizing other recreational forms and hunting will lose leverage and impact. If we want hunting to survive, even thrive it is important to keep the revenue growing.

 

[MallardSX2]

IMO we should be figuring out how to lower license costs for everyone. Not raise them to reduce competition.

Where is the money being wasted?
What programs are draining these multi-million dollar budgets on a yearly basis?
How can Colorado and other western states improve efficiencies to cut costs?

The answer always seems to be "raise the costs". Is the money really the issue?

 

[fatlander]

IMO we should be figuring out how to lower license costs for everyone. Not raise them to reduce competition.

Where is the money being wasted?
What programs are draining these multi-million dollar budgets on a yearly basis?
How can Colorado and other western states improve efficiencies to cut costs?

The answer always seems to be "raise the costs". Is the money really the issue?

Hunting is cheap. Elk hunting for a resident is really cheap. I spent years working for a well run and well funded game department, and we still didn’t have the money we needed to be effective. The only way to make things cheaper is charging fees for non hunting and non fishing access. That’s the last thing any hunter should ever want or ask for. Hunting’s saving grace is we don’t rely on the non hunting public to fund state game and fish departments. As soon as that bridge gets crossed, the anti’s have a real seat at the table.


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[cnelk]

As long as PARKS is part of the CPW there will be OTC. That’s where the money pit is at.

 

[Ucsdryder]

$150.00 Res license? Hilarious. You realize how much money NR brings into CO? Not just in license fees, but in the tax dollars for everything else we buy while in CO.

You reduce NR by a significant amount, go ahead and get ready for $300+ Res license fees.

Done. Every state in the west has figured out how to limit NR to 10-15% but colorado. And let’s be honest, most NR buy some gas and that’s it. They don’t stay in hotels, they already have their gear, etc. it’s a tired argument made by nonresidents.

oh and the second part of my 2 part plan is to raise NR tags to 1000 like Montana and Wyoming. So don’t worry, you’ll still be paying your share.

 

[Ultraheight]

Done. Every state in the west has figured out how to limit NR to 10-15% but colorado. And let’s be honest, most NR buy some gas and that’s it. They don’t stay in hotels, they already have their gear, etc. it’s a tired argument made by nonresidents.

oh and the second part of my 2 part plan is to raise NR tags to 1000 like Montana and Wyoming. So don’t worry, you’ll still be paying your share.

I wouldn't say most only buy gas, only the smart ones. There are lots of middle income guys who are staying at cabins, airbnbs, lodges, private campgrounds, buying a warm dinner every night, and many paying outfitters 7-12K to hunt. Some will then fly the family in afterward to check out the aspens... The revenue numbers they post for NRs are correct, people are dumping money. That being said, I agree that limiting us would be a net good.

 

[MallardSX2]

And let’s be honest, most NR buy some gas and that’s it. They don’t stay in hotels, they already have their gear, etc. it’s a tired argument made by nonresidents.

I get a hotel every time I go to Colorado as do most of my friends. I typically spend about $500 minimum in Colorado every time I visit. Not counting the license.....

So I'm not so sure you really know what the hell your talking about.

Its doesn't surprise me though. Most people dont.