California "premium" zones

[amassi]

I'm trying to imagine what D3-5 would look like if they gave out doe tags

All of the sierra zones would benefit from a healthier buck to doe ratio. That's why doe hunts are a part of every successful management plan along with tag quotas in relation to herd size, antler point restrictions during down swells etc etc.
The general consensus I've gleamed from Californians on this site is that they're all for change so long as it doesn't effect their ability to have 2 shitty tags a year and a 4 month season.

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[Bubblehide]

... but the state generally doesn't want to shift from its ways based on those 30 years of indecision.

Personally, I think F&W does a decent job of managing our deer given all the issues involved. Meaning, negative voter influence, i.e., no lion hunting, no use of dogs for bears, no competitions for coyotes. Then F&W can only advise the forest service and BLM. The Forest Service had a long history of ignoring F&W on land management practices; it is only recently that the Forest Service has been receptive to F&W requests for land management practices.

 

[Pacific_Fork]

CA has some either sex tags that are easy to draw.

All of the sierra zones would benefit from a healthier buck to doe ratio. That's why doe hunts are a part of every successful management plan along with tag quotas in relation to herd size, antler point restrictions during down swells etc etc.
The general consensus I've gleamed from Californians on this site is that they're all for change so long as it doesn't effect their ability to have 2 shitty tags a year and a 4 month season.

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I think you have us confused with a different state. We get around a month depending on the unit.

There aren’t many does in the sierras so I don’t see how hunting a few is going to benefit the buck population and age class. We have a predator and habitat problem point blank.

I truly believe if hunters wanted to start seeing higher numbers of bigger bucks they need to stop shooting all the dinks. The majority of hunters in CA (prob everywhere) don’t pass up a legal buck that just got done breast feeding and has 6 ounce back straps. If it’s brown it’s down around here.

 

[Pro953]

Correct, and I've heard the same directly from CDFW biologists. Some areas of the state have strong deer populations for the given habitat, but the buck:doe ratios are horrible which is why many hunters complain about hunt quality. I've been told that doe hunts have been recommended in these areas for a while but are always shot down at some level of approval.

Interesting. I would love to hear more information on doe management. My understanding from what I had read over the years was that Doe hunts were related to overall population control. Which is why they are used heavily in areas that are “over objective”.

My understanding is we are nowhere near carrying capacity in our herds where post breeding age does would impact the population.

It’s always interesting and frustrating how much science and opinion blend on some of these issues. You speak with one biologist vs another and you get very well founded but completely opposing arguments.

If Doe hunts would help I am all for it. Sadly as was noted here they are part of a long list of poorly tolerated management tools here in CA.


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[Moserkr]

I agree with you @Pacific_Fork I see young bucks being picked off constantly in the otc zones. I bet the few bucks that do grow old rarely get shot as they move far far away from the roads. I see only a handful of does too and know most of the herd in my core area. In 5 square miles theres around 20 does and maybe 7 or 8 bucks. Not a bad ratio til you look at the age class - only 2 mature bucks and the rest 1-2 years old. By the end of the season the ratio goes way down to only 2-4 bucks left. After the winter... lets just say in 2019-2021 there were no mature bucks on my cams until last year. Last year was even worse due to fire closures - young bucks were out in the open, close to the day hunters during season and got annihilated. If we hunted does there would be zero deer in the sierras (except for the occasional youth hunt doe that is taken).

Dont shoot young bucks, and go predator hunting. Thats how we start fixing our deer herds with the current regulations.

 

[amassi]

CA has some either sex tags that are easy to draw.


I think you have us confused with a different state. We get around a month depending on the unit.

There aren’t many does in the sierras so I don’t see how hunting a few is going to benefit the buck population and age class. We have a predator and habitat problem point blank.

I truly believe if hunters wanted to start seeing higher numbers of bigger bucks they need to stop shooting all the dinks. The majority of hunters in CA (prob everywhere) don’t pass up a legal buck that just got done breast feeding and has 6 ounce back straps. If it’s brown it’s down around here.

Some either sex tags? Like 130 tags for the entire state? Many single zones could easily support that many doe permits. Just because you don't understand how a deer management plan works doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Seasons- 1 month? Really are you sure about that?
If you have an A zone tag an a D zone tag you can hunt from July to the end of October, get your fingers ready( can leave your shoes on for this one)
July-1, August-2 September-3 October-4.
4 months hunting 2 tags.

Well if there aren't many does in the sierras and the buck to doe ratio is 8:100 then there aren't many bucks in the sierras but there's thousands of buck tags.

Shooting dinks- point restrictions and doe permits.

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[amassi]

I agree with you @Pacific_Fork I see young bucks being picked off constantly in the otc zones. I bet the few bucks that do grow old rarely get shot as they move far far away from the roads. I see only a handful of does too and know most of the herd in my core area. In 5 square miles theres around 20 does and maybe 7 or 8 bucks. Not a bad ratio til you look at the age class - only 2 mature bucks and the rest 1-2 years old. By the end of the season the ratio goes way down to only 2-4 bucks left. After the winter... lets just say in 2019-2021 there were no mature bucks on my cams until last year. Last year was even worse due to fire closures - young bucks were out in the open, close to the day hunters during season and got annihilated. If we hunted does there would be zero deer in the sierras (except for the occasional youth hunt doe that is taken).

Dont shoot young bucks, and go predator hunting. Thats how we start fixing our deer herds with the current regulations.

You realize doe hunts would not have 35,000 permits right? The bios would actually go and count the deer herds and allocate buck and doe tags to meet management goals. Not some free for all

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[Calbuck]

Killing does to increase buck-to-doe ratio is just cheating to make the number match an objective.

 

[Moserkr]

You realize doe hunts would not have 35,000 permits right? The bios would actually go and count the deer herds and allocate buck and doe tags to meet management goals. Not some free for all

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Yea I get it. In the sierras at least, you cant hunt does without managing predators first. Based on historical data, we should have much bigger deer herds overall. Cant grow a herd without lots of does. Im not against doe hunting at all when its done properly to maintain a herd size. Our herds are hurting badly when it comes to migrating deer. The blacktail seem to be everywhere and would get my vote first in some areas for more tags. Being such a big state, theres no one size fits all management plan - thats why we are in this situation in the first place. D3-5 is a nightmare for bucks to live in, especially the sierras, but its a big money maker. There has to be better ways to make money and grow the deer herd.

 

[Bcoonce117]

Get a bear tag if you really want to help deer. I see many bear each year. I was told by a warden last year, that the bear population is growing and they are definitely taking out fawns. Bear meat is delicious and you’re helping the deer population if you harvest one.
Also go out scouting in the summer with a predator call and a rifle. I see many coyote in the hills and sometimes catch them harassing the deer.

Ca definitely has a problem, but seems like they are definitely in the business of selling tags and not managing herds. They also have their hands tied because it is so commy here. With all that said, I still see some good bucks throughout the year. You do have to work and opportunity isn’t as high as other states but they are there.

 

[brushape]

I would be more than willing to give up some opportunity for better hunt quality I could easily shoot 2 deer a year but rarely do anymore in California
. I will agree with the people above and add on. Bears taste better than deer anyway and are a lot bigger as well. Everyone needs to shoot one and help the cause


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[Pacific_Fork]

Some either sex tags? Like 130 tags for the entire state? Many single zones could easily support that many doe permits. Just because you don't understand how a deer management plan works doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Seasons- 1 month? Really are you sure about that?
If you have an A zone tag an a D zone tag you can hunt from July to the end of October, get your fingers ready( can leave your shoes on for this one)
July-1, August-2 September-3 October-4.
4 months hunting 2 tags.

Well if there aren't many does in the sierras and the buck to doe ratio is 8:100 then there aren't many bucks in the sierras but there's thousands of buck tags.

Shooting dinks- point restrictions and doe permits.

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Easy there internet tough guy.

Those deer herds from A-D zone are completely different management zones and objectives. So we do not hunt the same deer for 4 months, jack wagon.

It’s a good thing you don’t call the shots on our deer, killing does isn’t the answer in a struggling herd. This isn’t Alabama whitetail over here. I talk with biologists and work with the agency on projects through a conservation NGO I am on the board of. We talk deer and predator management often, never once is an idea to start killing does to better our buck population and age class. It’s always about predator and habitat management. We have poor fawn survival because of predation also. I agree with above we need to kill more bears. Most hunters don’t want to because they’re after a buck during deer season. Plus we see the most bears in spring/summer when they are off limits.

But hey, CA DFW isn’t the best in the nation obviously. They have a hard on for spending all their research $$$ on lions. So maybe they need an expert doe manager like you to come in and grow big bucks for us!

 

[Marble]

Some either sex tags? Like 130 tags for the entire state? Many single zones could easily support that many doe permits. Just because you don't understand how a deer management plan works doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Seasons- 1 month? Really are you sure about that?
If you have an A zone tag an a D zone tag you can hunt from July to the end of October, get your fingers ready( can leave your shoes on for this one)
July-1, August-2 September-3 October-4.
4 months hunting 2 tags.

Well if there aren't many does in the sierras and the buck to doe ratio is 8:100 then there aren't many bucks in the sierras but there's thousands of buck tags.

Shooting dinks- point restrictions and doe permits.

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I'll only add maybe some less tags also.

I know I get "2 shiity tags" a year, but I would be happy bring restricted to only filling one.

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[Marble]

Killing does to increase buck-to-doe ratio is just cheating to make the number match an objective.

But several biologis claim a natural ratio is closer to 1:1.

I am not advocating looking does down to reach that number. But I would like to see some serious discussion on what some reduction in the doe herd would look like potentially.

Does it increase successful breeding?

Fawn survival?





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[Ridley]

California draw results are available.

 

[TrinityAlps]

Drew x4, hopefully it's not as bad as y'all make it sound.

 

[jlong17]

My first time ever not drawing my second choice tag. It'll be AO for me this year

 

[Banded_spooney]

Drew x4, hopefully it's not as bad as y'all make it sound.

congrats and welcome to the forum

 

[TrinityAlps]

congrats and welcome to the forum

Appreciate it!

 

[Moserkr]

Drew x4, hopefully it's not as bad as y'all make it sound.

Theres deer in x4. Just not as many on the west side where I was hunting apparently. Saw 3 dinks at dusk, one shooter which I got on the 6th morning, and one big bear. My buddy ate tag soup only because he didnt have 2 weeks to dedicate to the season. I was going to move to the east side of the unit day 7 for the 2nd half of the season but tagged out. The logging co land on the east side was closed that year but it didnt stop some people. Pretty sure some monsters are hiding in the foothill sage shrubs too. We were hunting adjacent to private water and alfalfa on public blm in 2018.