California "premium" zones

[Marble]

You guys how many of you get into the x zones
On a regular basis? I live and work (travel) in multiple x zones..I
See the bucks and deer numbers regularly. The deer have learned to move into residential areas during season. They are still around , but I believe due to predators and hunting they have evolved to prefer private residential to forest service ground. And they stick closer to the Highway. At least some anyway.

They are for sure around. The overall numbers are just down. Dangerously low.

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[Moserkr]

Check the graph above and compare it to this. Id say they correlate very closely. Human population growth destroyed habitat, decimated them with vehicles, and then society feelings towards cats put the nail in their coffin.

The deer hunting in CA definitely needs an overhaul, especially in the sierras. Too few deer, too many hunters. Now in A-zone, theres lots of tiny deer, and are damn near impossible to find in the jungle.

Bear hunting needs a spring season and allocations for 2 tags a person.

Now Ive learned some OTC spots in the heaviest hunted zone of CA, and could tag out every year. I try to let the small bucks go but after they left my sight, I heard *bang* nearby. Some survive though, and once they get older, they dont make those mistakes as much. A lot of bucks I have on trail cam Ive never seen on foot. The best ones died of either a bad winter or old age. One buck was so old it actually amazed me he survived so long. Missing one eye, big pot belly, face all scared.

My hunt in x4 was pretty dissapointing for the numbers of bucks we saw. I tagged a decent one and had a chance at a big bear though. Everywhere I go I see the habitat is there, but the deer are not. The deer seem to live around humans in their winter range fairly well. So my honest guess is cars and cats are the two biggest killers of deer in CA. Id love to see Hwy 50 get fenced with safe crossings between 1-4000’. Its all private down there but I count 50+ deer easily dead a year.

Should draw another x-zone this year. We shall see how it goes. Im only looking for mature bucks and I will scout pretty hard. I expect to find them as I do in the OTC units, if Im lucky Ill kill one too.

 

[IH8Cali]

As premium zones, there should be some effort in quality. You're telling me if you draw your once in a lifetime Utah deer tag in paunsaugunt, San Juan, or Henry and if you don't see a mature buck you'll shoot a 2 or 3 year old buck?

Yes, without question. If I see a legal buck, in a great situation, that I have an excellent opportunity at, i'm killing it. Every time.

There are plenty of mature deer that aren't eaten by "lions".

Correct, they live in peoples back yards. A LOT are killed by lions though, I would find the remains often when hiking. Remember, I said I actually lived in the place i'm talking about.

 

[Marble]

Check the graph above and compare it to this. Id say they correlate very closely. Human population growth destroyed habitat, decimated them with vehicles, and then society feelings towards cats put the nail in their coffin. View attachment 414862

The deer hunting in CA definitely needs an overhaul, especially in the sierras. Too few deer, too many hunters. Now in A-zone, theres lots of tiny deer, and are damn near impossible to find in the jungle.

Bear hunting needs a spring season and allocations for 2 tags a person.

Now Ive learned some OTC spots in the heaviest hunted zone of CA, and could tag out every year. I try to let the small bucks go but after they left my sight, I heard *bang* nearby. Some survive though, and once they get older, they dont make those mistakes as much. A lot of bucks I have on trail cam Ive never seen on foot. The best ones died of either a bad winter or old age. One buck was so old it actually amazed me he survived so long. Missing one eye, big pot belly, face all scared.

My hunt in x4 was pretty dissapointing for the numbers of bucks we saw. I tagged a decent one and had a chance at a big bear though. Everywhere I go I see the habitat is there, but the deer are not. The deer seem to live around humans in their winter range fairly well. So my honest guess is cars and cats are the two biggest killers of deer in CA. Id love to see Hwy 50 get fenced with safe crossings between 1-4000’. Its all private down there but I count 50+ deer easily dead a year.

Should draw another x-zone this year. We shall see how it goes. Im only looking for mature bucks and I will scout pretty hard. I expect to find them as I do in the OTC units, if Im lucky Ill kill one too.

All good points. I would like to hear from an actual biologist in CA that can speak with some education on why deer population is what it is and why or what is DFG doing.

All of us hunters have our theories, but they are all anecdotal.

I'm somewhere around 7 points this year for deer. So I can pick several spots but I'm not really excited about it. I think I'll do my stand by tags and concentrate on my other hunts.

I think I might wait it out for a really good archery tag. My buddy has 9 or 10 points. We are both MAX on elk too. But I'll wait.

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[Pacific_Fork]

I have talked to CA biologist and they echo what has been said here by everyone on the "why". As for the what they are going to do about it, well thats when the conversations usually end, I think because there are no easy solutions and they have their hands tied due to legislation from top down with predator management. Of course lions/bears are just one factor, but it would be logistically and financially the easiest to implement. We cant grow more habitat and rid of freeways but we can manage predators if the state would let us.

I have no idea if cutting tags to one per hunter/year would actually do anything to help the overall herds. I have no idea if implementing a 3 pt rule would work. It wouldn't work in A zone for sure as 80% of mature bucks where I hunt are forked horns LOL. Hence my username. I like that I can kill an Azone buck every year in early august then head to the sierras in September/October and do the same. Since these deer herds are entirely separate I do not feel guilty, yet.

 

[amassi]

I forgot to mention, some good news from that scouting trip is the elk herd looks to be expanding and doing well. There are elk in X6b now. One can only hope that eventually means more hunting opportunity. Probably not for mid point holders like me but who knows?

There's been elk in x6b since 2005/ 2006. If you drive the Genesee road north out of beckworth there's quite a few signs stating that there's elk in the area and hunters need to be aware. I'm fairly certain dfg transported them there as the first elk we saw there was 7 mature bulls over summer, 1 had radio collar.

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[Moserkr]

Definitely cant institute a 3-point or better rule again in CA. Way too many forkies everywhere. Ive seen massive spikes too lol and couldnt legally even shoot them! We just have weird genetics in CA.

Im curious if elk really do hurt the deer population. In other states a healthy elk population doesnt hurt deer, and they generally forage different plants. I would think it would be a benefit to have more elk everywhere, especially for us hunters. Lots of unused habitat that needs reintroduction of elk and even sheep. The historical range is hardly used and would change the landscape if they were reintroduced.

I would be fine with a 1 buck a year rule. Ive only had a few chances at 2 bucks in a year but I always pass on the younger ones anyway. Im with the majority opinion that a reduction in tags wouldnt make much of a difference.

To me the x-zones arent necessarily horrible, its just deer hunting overall is pretty bad in CA. Its sad to see such a beautiful state be managed so poorly. Id do whatever it takes to make CA hunting great again, if that was even possible….

 

[Calbuck]

I believe the elk eat the mahogany shoots that deer like and eat them up high enough the deer can't reach.

 

[Marble]

Just in general, elk are grazers, deer are browser's. So elk tend to eat more stuff growing from the ground level and deer softly above. This isn't to say they don't compete at certain times of the year. So that's one of the reasons why they can live in the same area in abundance.

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[Azone]

I’m now sitting on 12 deer points and nothing is really jumping out at me. Seriously considered an X zone hunt a couple years back but it fell through for a number of reasons. I was able to talk to a few people who hunted the zone I was looking into and they said it could still produce but had gotten tougher. With plenty of scouting it could provide good results but my work schedule was hell back then and I wasn’t gonna have time to make several trips so I opted to keep my points. I hunted X9A 12 years ago and it was an awesome experience but in hindsight I went into it with unrealistic expectations and ate the tag. I know another group of guys that did extremely well in 5B a few years back but I’m years away from catching the creep on that tag.
I really just want to dump the damn points already and just apply for a late rifle hunt that takes place in my neck of the woods that only takes a point or two every year. At this point I will take years of boots on the ground experience versus X zone fantasies. Or just keep hoping for Anderson or Goodale, maybe, please, yup probably won’t ever happen for me.

 

[Azone]

And lions apparently.

They need to take the bear off the flag and just put a lion with a weed leaf behind it on there instead.

 

[Ducks&Bulls]

I’m now sitting on 12 deer points and nothing is really jumping out at me. Seriously considered an X zone hunt a couple years back but it fell through for a number of reasons. I was able to talk to a few people who hunted the zone I was looking into and they said it could still produce but had gotten tougher. With plenty of scouting it could provide good results but my work schedule was hell back then and I wasn’t gonna have time to make several trips so I opted to keep my points. I hunted X9A 12 years ago and it was an awesome experience but in hindsight I went into it with unrealistic expectations and ate the tag. I know another group of guys that did extremely well in 5B a few years back but I’m years away from catching the creep on that tag.
I really just want to dump the damn points already and just apply for a late rifle hunt that takes place in my neck of the woods that only takes a point or two every year. At this point I will take years of boots on the ground experience versus X zone fantasies. Or just keep hoping for Anderson or Goodale, maybe, please, yup probably won’t ever happen for me.

there are some big bucks in that zone. You should make the trip down 395 and use some glass from the freeway from the time you cross into cali headed south from Nevada by gardenerville. You will see bucks that will make you think you were in NV. Big glass too... no less than 15x binos and an excellent spotter. If you find a mature 4x4 with good genetics, 180" is not surprising. pm me if you want to know where to look/apply before tonight haha

 

[brushape]

I’ve been thinking and talking about this mess for a while, California deer herds are in horrible shape overall and the way they manage them is terrible. They need to go to all tags on a mandatory draw that way right there you don’t have every guy in the state applying for g3 as a Hail Mary and then just hunting their club in a zone. Second tags could be bought in the leftovers like all the other states. I think breaking up the b zones and especially a zone into some smaller units and having private land and public specific tags like colorado does would be a huge help. With the fires we have had these last few years and unlimited tags the deer are getting absolutely hammered on the public lands


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[Marble]

I’ve been thinking and talking about this mess for a while, California deer herds are in horrible shape overall and the way they manage them is terrible. They need to go to all tags on a mandatory draw that way right there you don’t have every guy in the state applying for g3 as a Hail Mary and then just hunting their club in a zone. Second tags could be bought in the leftovers like all the other states. I think breaking up the b zones and especially a zone into some smaller units and having private land and public specific tags like colorado does would be a huge help. With the fires we have had these last few years and unlimited tags the deer are getting absolutely hammered on the public lands


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All great ideas.

I think the one thing not touched on is habitat. The days of logging companies creating habitat for deer are long gone. It's a monumental task and I don't think it will ever return to the numbers seen in the early 90s.

I definitely think in the next 5 years, CA will change draw availability, tag allocation, total tags and reduce over all opportunity.

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[brushape]

All great ideas.

I think the one thing not touched on is habitat. The days of logging companies creating habitat for deer are long gone. It's a monumental task and I don't think it will ever return to the numbers seen in the early 90s.

I definitely think in the next 5 years, CA will change draw availability, tag allocation, total tags and reduce over all opportunity.

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No doubt about it all of northern ca used to be heavily logged and we had amazing hunting now that has been traded off for massive forest fires


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[Extrapale]

Definitely cant institute a 3-point or better rule again in CA. Way too many forkies everywhere. Ive seen massive spikes too lol and couldnt legally even shoot them! We just have weird genetics in CA.

Im curious if elk really do hurt the deer population. In other states a healthy elk population doesnt hurt deer, and they generally forage different plants. I would think it would be a benefit to have more elk everywhere, especially for us hunters. Lots of unused habitat that needs reintroduction of elk and even sheep. The historical range is hardly used and would change the landscape if they were reintroduced.

I would be fine with a 1 buck a year rule. Ive only had a few chances at 2 bucks in a year but I always pass on the younger ones anyway. Im with the majority opinion that a reduction in tags wouldnt make much of a difference.

To me the x-zones arent necessarily horrible, its just deer hunting overall is pretty bad in CA. Its sad to see such a beautiful state be managed so poorly. Id do whatever it takes to make CA hunting great again, if that was even possible….

I have not read all the replies, but elk can affect deer by keeping cougar numbers up.

If the elk weren't there, the cougar population would decline with the deer population. If there are elk present, cougars will survive on them and kill deer when they have the opportunity. The few remaining deer continue to get hammered by a high cougar population propped up by elk being available also.

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[Pacific_Fork]

It’s almost universally known elk can displace deer from what I’ve read, heard, and personally witnessed. Same with bovine in the high country. Deer are solitude herd animals and can also get out competed for feed and water. Now if we are certain instances of private property that’s safe from over predation, full of feed, plenty of cover then yea it’s not uncommon to drive by a giant ranch and see deer mingling with other species. The backcountry is usually the opposite.

Edit: I’ve done some more research and there studies out there that go both ways. So not as clear cut as I thought, interesting either way and some good reads out there. All depends on the conditions of the habitat for sure.

 

[WKR]

I have not read all the replies, but elk can affect deer by keeping cougar numbers up.

If the elk weren't there, the cougar population would decline with the deer population. If there are elk present, cougars will survive on them and kill deer when they have the opportunity. The few remaining deer continue to get hammered by a high cougar population propped up by elk being available also.

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I wonder if this is the same with the wolf population. Most areas in northeastern CA that have an elk herd also has wolves. I'm not sure if the wolves have moved that far south from Lassen. Also I dont know the effect a wolf pack has on the deer herds.

 

[Banded_spooney]

I’ve been thinking and talking about this mess for a while, California deer herds are in horrible shape overall and the way they manage them is terrible. They need to go to all tags on a mandatory draw that way right there you don’t have every guy in the state applying for g3 as a Hail Mary and then just hunting their club in a zone. Second tags could be bought in the leftovers like all the other states. I think breaking up the b zones and especially a zone into some smaller units and having private land and public specific tags like colorado does would be a huge help. With the fires we have had these last few years and unlimited tags the deer are getting absolutely hammered on the public lands


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I feel personally attacked by this post… one of these days that overrated G3 tag is going to interfere with my duck season

 

[Wags]

I feel personally attacked by this post… one of these days that overrated G3 tag is going to interfere with my duck season

Hopefully for you it’s this year.

It’s going to be a rough duck season for a lot of guys due to lack of water. Some of the refuge quotas are pretty bleak as well. Access & water will be premium this winter. Add all the new boat owners & it’s going to be a crap show to say the least. I’m still hopeful that we’ll get some early rain like we did last year and it’ll turn things around. We’ll see…