Bullet performance concern

[WKR]

I took a nice blacktail buck yesterday with my 45-70 lever gun. The shot was 40 yards double lung. He did the classic mule kick when hit and ran off about 30 yards and stood still so I put another bullet in him threw his neck which anchored him on the spot.
Now I wasn't very pleased with the lung shot bullet performance and I'm thinking its because of my bullet selection. It just penciled a 1/2 inch hole threw both sides without doing much internal damage. He would have died from that first shot but I am of the belief that you keep shooting until they are down.
My load was a lehigh 380 grain solid copper wide flat nose bullet over 48 grains of imr 3031

 

[Laramie]

I took a nice blacktail buck yesterday with my 45-70 lever gun. The shot was 40 yards double lung. He did the classic mule kick when hit and ran off about 30 yards and stood still so I put another bullet in him threw his neck which anchored him on the spot.
Now I wasn't very pleased with the lung shot bullet performance and I'm thinking its because of my bullet selection. It just penciled a 1/2 inch hole threw both sides without doing much internal damage. He would have died from that first shot but I am of the belief that you keep shooting until they are down.
My load was a lehigh 380 grain solid copper wide flat nose bullet over 48 grains of imr 3031

Sounds like the gun/bullet combination performed exactly as it was intended. Did you think you would get a large exit hole and expansion out of that solid copper?

 

[Geewhiz]

Sounds like the gun/bullet combination performed exactly as it was intended. Did you think you would get a large exit hole and expansion out of that solid copper?

I agree, and with the energy of a 45-70 at 30 yards, what did you expect? Especially being as it was a double lung, i assume behind the shoulder?

 

[gman82001]

Solid copper and slow bullet don’t equal huge hydrostatic shock like a normal hunting caliber we’re used to. The saying of a 45-70 is eat right up to the hole, because you’re not getting the bloodshot shock from a big heavy slow bullet. It did exactly what it’s supposed to drive a big wide bullet deep (all the way though in this case) .


ETA: that’s a cool buck by the way congrats

 

[WKR]

Sounds like the gun/bullet combination performed exactly as it was intended. Did you think you would get a large exit hole and expansion out of that solid copper?

No I didn't expect any expansion out of that bullet, I know what they are designed to do. But I did think there would be more internal trauma to the lungs. It might be a velocity problem, because when I shoot a double lung with a solid copper out of my 7mm rem mag the lungs look like soup

 

[WKR]

Solid copper and slow bullet don’t equal huge hydrostatic shock like a normal hunting caliber we’re used to. The saying of a 45-70 is eat right up to the hole, because you’re not getting the bloodshot shock from a big heavy slow bullet. It did exactly what it’s supposed to drive a big wide bullet deep (all the way though in this case) .


ETA: that’s a cool buck by the way congrats

Thank you, I think you've got it right. I was expecting hydrostatic shock and I'm just not going to get that with this heavy slow cartridge

 

[Dabreadbox]

Should he switch to a lead bullet?

 

[Rob5589]

Should he switch to a lead bullet?

Can't in California.

 

[Jstumbaugh]

I know you cant use them in Cali but the Nosler 300 gr ballistic tips in my 450 marlin are awesome on deer. Maybe someone will offer a lead free version similar to that at some point.

 

[WKR]

I know you cant use them in Cali but the Nosler 300 gr ballistic tips in my 450 marlin are awesome on deer. Maybe someone will offer a lead free version similar to that at some point.

What kind of terminal performance are you getting out of those bullets?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

your load is basically a centerfire powered field point arrow, as your own field results proved. when forced to use copper, to get tissue damage you need both a high impact velocity and a soft, easy to expand or fragment bullet.

IMO copper sucks for hunting.

 

[Jstumbaugh]

What kind of terminal performance are you getting out of those bullets?

1/2" in, 3/4" out with very little blood shot meat. Internals are taking the brunt of it. My sample size with that round has been 40 yard and 80 yard shots. Both DRT double lung, not hitting heavy bone. Your guide gun should handle loads close to that of the 450.

 

[TAArrowood]

Copper HAS to have velocity to perform well.. By the same token, your 7mm mag will not perform well at extended range where the bullet's velocity has fallen below what is required to make it expand.. Barnes is a great bullet, but only performs its best when driven at 1800+ feet per second (in my experience).. Some argue lower speeds, but then the impact location plays a much bigger effect and marginal hits don't turn into spectacular kills.. Just my experience.2 cents..

 

[Jstumbaugh]

.458 285gr CHT – Upbullets

www.upbullets.com

These look interesting

 

[Jstumbaugh]

Looks like Hornady offers the Mono Flex tip in 250gr and Cutting Edge has some lead free offerings too.

 

[49ereric]

Less bloodshot meat is a plus!

 

[SouthPaw]

Do those flat-nose copper bullets expand at all, or do they act more like a FMJ/harcast? I'd be careful - the CA regulations state bullets used on big game must be lead-free but also must be expanding. Load up the Cutting Edge Maximus and you'll see better terminal results.

 

[EdP]

Nothing surprising for a .45-70 at 40 yds using a solid. Many better choices are available, but you got the job done.

 

[rayporter]

you put a .458 hole through the lungs-he was dead on his feet.

i am playing with the 250 gr horn. mono flex, i dont think it will be what the 300 gr hollow point is but i could be wrong. it shoots ok.

 

[leclairk]

Great looking buck!