Bullet performance concern

[Steve300xcw]

how much deader did you want it to be?

 

[MJB]

Copper sucks unless you hit bone or travel 30" in tissue frontal shots are killers!
Aim for shoulder or in front of

 

[RadDad]

Took a 150gr CX out of an elk. It was shot out of a 7RM at 70yds. Almost exited on the other side but ended up barely caught in the hide. Great shot in the vitals that killed it pretty damn fast. Other than shedding its petals, which at that distance isn’t surprising, it did exactly what it was designed for. I’m a big fan of copper and have no qualms using it. The CX did what I expected it to do and have heard even better results out of the TTSX.

- RadDad

 

[rootacres]

Sometimes the big bore rifles like that don't have enough velocity to make particular bullets do what it was designed to do, especially when hard surfaces aren't involved. Over here in the midwest we run into the same problem with some 450 bushmaster and 350 legend bullets. While a well placed shot will still be lethal the bullet doesn't do what you'd expect. I have gone to more of an anchoring type shot placement instead of a traditional behind the shoulder hit. When these bullets hit something hard they seem to open up better. Ive started targeting animals shoulders. I know there's meat loss involved but I feel its a high percentage shot with a very high recovery rate. The shoulder meat is the worst cut and there isnt much to begin with. I feel it's a small price to pay for an almost guaranteed recovery.

 

[MattB]

Not sure what you were expecting, but sounds like you got what you should have.

 

[fisherman983]

Shoot em in the neck on the first shot they definitely don't go anywhere

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[wind gypsy]

I took a nice blacktail buck yesterday with my 45-70 lever gun. The shot was 40 yards double lung. He did the classic mule kick when hit and ran off about 30 yards and stood still so I put another bullet in him threw his neck which anchored him on the spot.
Now I wasn't very pleased with the lung shot bullet performance and I'm thinking its because of my bullet selection. It just penciled a 1/2 inch hole threw both sides without doing much internal damage. He would have died from that first shot but I am of the belief that you keep shooting until they are down.
My load was a lehigh 380 grain solid copper wide flat nose bullet over 48 grains of imr 3031

Confirming that it is indeed because of your bullet selection. Your bullet was designed to NOT deform so it can penetrate as deeply as possible. That is the opposite of what you want for CA blacktail deer and sounds like it may not even be legal as it isn't an expanding bullet.

Lehigh's own opening sentence describing this bullet: "The concept of a Wide Flat Nose (WFN) projectile is nothing new or groundbreaking, but it does leave room for improvement." To paraphrase - this design is old news, doesn't work very well compared to other options.

"Our solid copper WFN line of projectiles have a tensile strength of 10-20x greater than conventional lead projectiles. This massive increase in strength allows our WFNs to punch through the hardest of bone with little to no deformation"

 

[35WhelenAI]

Copper sucks unless you hit bone or travel 30" in tissue frontal shots are killers!
Aim for shoulder or in front of

He shot a SOLID copper WFN bullet instead of a solid lead bullet to get around the lead-free law in CA. Likely you missed it was a non-expanding solid.

 

[t_carlson]

A solid bullet - whether copper or not - is not going to punch much more than a caliber sized hole regardless of velocity.

Barnes makes a 350 gr hollow point. I have them in some Buffalo Bore loads but haven’t tried them on game.

Maybe give that a try.

 

[AkRyan]

Barnes has some 300g hollow points for the 45-70 that make huge wound channels.

 

[Rich M]

Can you get a HP design in copper for the caliber? Might make a diff.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Can you get a HP design in copper for the caliber? Might make a diff.

Yes, see post #29. However, I believe Barnes has 250 gr and 300 gr TSX hollow points, not a 350 gr unless that is an older one they don't offer at this point.

 

[Rich M]

Yes, see post #29. However, I believe Barnes has 250 gr and 300 gr TSX hollow points, not a 350 gr unless that is an older one they don't offer at this point.

Those would be the way to go if more damage is preferred. That or shooting thru shoulders to slow the critter down some.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Those would be the way to go if more damage is preferred. That or shooting thru shoulders to slow the critter down some.

Agree 100% they will do more damage. A .458 expanding mono should/will kill a black tail, muley, white tail, et al, with urgency on a lung shot like the one that started this thread with tattering, shredding and chunking of vital tissue. Yet meat damage would be minimal based on my experience with monos in general. JAT. Midway has them in stock, 300 gr TSX.

 

[WKR]

Agree 100% they will do more damage. A .458 expanding mono should/will kill a black tail, muley, white tail, et al, with urgency on a lung shot like the one that started this thread with tattering, shredding and chunking of vital tissue. Yet meat damage would be minimal based on my experience with monos in general. JAT. Midway has them in stock, 300 gr TSX.

I'm gunna pick some up, any load data with imr 3031?

 

[35WhelenAI]

Barnes doesn't list 3031 with their data, however take a look at Hodgdon data, they have some for the 300 gr Sierra.

Midway has the 300 TSX ammo available as well. They show a velocity of 1905 fps for the factory load vs 2300 fps max for their published load data. They are surely loading to a low pressure, as someone could slip one into an old trapdoor. That would be a window to load to on velocity if I was working up a load.

I have not loaded the Barnes 300 TSX, but have them on hand.

I'd pick up 3 boxes (20 per box I believe) since who knows when they may be available again. That gives you a box to work up a load, with two boxes and whatever is left from the first box left for hunting and verifying zero over the coming years.

For me, the 45/70 is about times of old, and anything that shoots to a couple inches at 100 yds is gonna be great. My 1895SS shoots much better than that with traditional bullets however I wouldn't go chasing the nth degree of velocity or accuracy with components being rare these days.

A web search also would yield some info you could peruse from other forums and get a feel for what others are doing. Your load for the Lehigh 380 WFN copper solid may be a good place to start with 3031 based on the info you shared.

Obviously, a chronograph is your friend. Load up a couple at each charge weight as you work up. See how they shoot and where they are for velocity. Helps keep component use down.

Keep us posted.