Bullet opinion/experiences, 6.5shottyCREED

[sndmn11]

This rifle was purchased in 2020 for my dad to use on a deer hunt right after he found out he has pancreatic cancer. It was shot in factory form, not well, and put in a bell and Carlson, a @HawkinsPrecision brake and it slayed a deer with federal trophy copper (etip). It will get a grandpa to my kid message engraved in the receiver and be his, he is now 4yo.



This rifle has never shot 120etip or 127lrx smaller than 3" and usually 4-5" groups. I might draw the same deer tag and it'd be neat to hunt with inside 300yds, likely inside 200yds.

I did a WTB bullets and @mtnwrunner and @cooperjd hooked me up with some samples. Below is a picture of some groups from two days. The rifle would not group TMK, ELDm, accubond, and as you can see ELDx.

I do find the 130scirocco, 124hammer hunter and 140 berger vld hunting, to be acceptable. I have some 85gr hammer hunter on the way too.

I am curious what people have experienced on game with any of the good shooters?


Since the hammers and sciroccos shot well day 1, they got a group on day two and some velocity testing. Day one some Berger hybrid 140 shot well, but then I realized it wasn't the top Berger choice for hunting. I selected the vld hunter cause it's available at midway.


My groups were shot without the magnetospeed and about .5 grain below hodgon max. For the Berger and eldx I checked velocity with one shot.

Berger vld hunter 140 with 43.5gr Staball = 2628fps

130gr scirocco Staball 43.5gr = 2702, 44.3gr = 2739, 44.6gr = 2761, 44.9gr = 2811, 45.2gr = 2787

124hammer hunter Staball 45.0gr = 2765, 45.3gr = 2779, 45.6gr = 2761, 45.9gr = 2805, 46.2gr = 2844

Thoughts?

 

[OutdoorAg]

Thoughts…

If you lay every single group on top of one another, they are damn near identical.

I’d be checking my optical system first.

Looks like you have a pic rail and rings. Checked screws to the rail? Checked the rail to the rifle? Checked the ring screws?

Then I’d see if the barrel floats. Any strange pressure point?

Based on those groups, I bet you have a shooter of a rifle, but something is off.

Action screws tightened down?

Seriously, all those groups are identical. I’d stop chasing the reloading and start chasing the rifle. Whenever you find it, you’re going to have a shooter.

 

[jimh406]

It could be the reloads as well. I'd start over and check everything about the load including the bullet seating depth.

But the most likely issue is the scope, rings, or action is loose.

 

[sndmn11]

Experiences on game with the mentioned bullets?

 

[mt100gr.]

In .264 I can only speak to the ELDX bullets - they'll get it done. In other calibers (.284 and .308) the scirrocco and berger offerings are very effective on game.

Just for fun, you could try stuffing a 156gr Berger thru it. (Assuming it's at least 1:8)

 

[Ryan Avery]

What @OutdoorAg said and

Check the crown for any obvious nicks

For Sh$$s and giggles shoot it at 300 yards

I personally would use the VLDs, just nasty on elk and deer.

 

[sndmn11]

@OutdoorAg @Ryan Avery Black Canyon Customs has checked it out in the last month. The action is bedded in the AL bell and Carlson chassis, 65inlb (35 to 65 has been tried in varying combos), the rail bedded to the action, and it has had all three of my LRTS, one of my SHV, both Maven's, a few SWFAs on it.

The talk with Fritz at Black Canyon was to learn his thoughts on a new barrel if I couldn't find under 2" groups.

I am unfamiliar with the bergers, especially at a relatively slow speed. I'd imagine the Sciroccos are a good bullet, but don't know anyone using them. I am hoping the 85gr hammers shoot as well as the 124 does.

 

[Lawnboi]

Down the road… I think a new barrel with some nice engraving would be a good piece to hand down.

 

[sndmn11]

Down the road… I think a new barrel with some nice engraving would be a good piece to hand down.

In the plans for sure.

 

[Lawnboi]

In the plans for sure.

A twist flute with some memorable sayings engraved on the flutes would be pretty cool.

 

[sndmn11]

A twist flute with some memorable sayings engraved on the flutes would be pretty cool.

I have been more on the idea of a shouldered barrel I can swap back and forth. Fritz has a 7mm countered bartlein and suggested 7saw.

 

[wyosteve]

Was the receiver bedded into the Bell and Carlson stock? My experience with Bell and Carlson is that you needed to glass bed the receiver to get consistent groups.

 

[sndmn11]

Was the receiver bedded into the Bell and Carlson stock? My experience with Bell and Carlson is that you needed to glass bed the receiver to get consistent groups.

Yes, it is bedded around the lug and tang with pro-bed.

The Tikka I have been shooting the scope drops with is a BC that is unbedded and shoots fine. My other vanguard in a BC stock shoots well, I cannot remember if it is bedded from Weatherby.

My dad has since bought his own 6.5creed vanguard, and it is not a shooter either.

If this were my primary hunting rifle, I'd rebarrel it without question. I think a good goal for this rifle would be since it is shorter barreled and 6.5lbs, to put a fixed 6 SWFA or maybe a 1-4x for future timber stuff in keeping it lightweight. The kid is 4yo, so there's no rush and it is somewhat of a project for me as well. The oldest niece is 7.

It looks like I can get Sciroccos from the two guys who hooked me up, and the above feedback for the bergers is good, so I'll end up with some solutions here quick.

 

[BBob]

Experiences on game with the mentioned bullets?

Experience only with VLD's, they work.

 

[sndmn11]

Experience only with VLD's, they work.

Do you remember if the jump was finicky, or what you used?

If I load to mag length, they are at .140 jump, which is the opposite of Berger's website saying get close to the lands.

 

[BBob]

Do you remember if the jump was finicky, or what you used?

If I load to mag length, they are at .140 jump, which is the opposite of Berger's website saying get close to the lands.

None of mine are near lands, all shoot w/jump (SAAMI reamers) and none were particularly finicky. One 6.5 Creedmoor shoots @ .060". VLD's do not have to be close to lands to work. That was once thought to be true but pretty much dis-proven. Berger has two papers on finding VLD's seating depth you should source and read.

Here's one:

How to Load a VLD Bullet

You don't need to be an advanced hand loader to load VLD bullets, just follow these simple steps and you'll be shooting vlds in no time!

bergerbullets.com

 

[sndmn11]

None of mine are near lands, all shoot w/jump (SAAMI reamers) and none were particularly finicky. One 6.5 Creedmoor shoots @ .060". VLD's do not have to be close to lands to work. That was once thought to be true but pretty much dis-proven. Berger has two papers on finding VLD's seating depth you should source and read.

I found this one, and read through it Thursday. Is there another one?

VLD - Making it Shoot

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly

bergerbullets.com

 

[BBob]

I found this one, and read through it Thursday. Is there another one?

VLD - Making it Shoot

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly

bergerbullets.com

They've changed things up in their articles I see. Both articles I was referencing contain basically the same info and were pretty much the same as the one you found and the one I posted. Actually the articles we both posted are identical with different titles. Any of them will get you there.

This is an early one from Berger. You can see it's all the same info.

 

[cooperjd]

I grew up hunting whitetails in southwest TN. We used core-lokts, ballistic tips, etc. In the late 90's/early 00s, Dad found a box of .270 130gr scirocco's to test. There has never been another bullet fired from "Bad Bob" (his .270).

I like to tinker and play with different bullets, i used sciroccos in my '06 in 165 and 180gr. they are a fantastic bullet.

I've killed a few deer with 130gr vld and my 6.5creed. They were smaller deer, but the bullet was very deadly.

I've killed a couple critters with hammer bullets, again very deadly.

I'm stuck in the mindset, at least for the moment, that I typically want a bullet that will penetrate more and blow up less, so the hammers, sciroccos, get my nod.