Bullet Choice

[JohnyRingo]

I just bought a new rifle but it is the same caliber I have always shot (300 H&H Mag). Now I am kicking around the idea of trying different bullets. I have shot Nosler 180 gr Ballistic Tip handloads for the last 20 years and have had good success on mule deer and antelope. All of my shots have been one shot kills, with only one follow-up shot that I can remember. I have not shot any elk with these bullets as I am primarily a bow hunter for elk. My old rifle also has shot a bear and two moose with one-shot kills.

I am not a big fan of messing with something that is working, but I also like to try new stuff. I am kicking around the idea of trying the Nosler Accubond or the Hornady ELD-X bullets. I am currently shooting the Accubonds while breaking the barrel in by shooting Nosler Trophy Grade bullets. I haven't had a chance to shoot this new rifle on paper much with it being such a cold winter in Wyoming. I have shot the rifle enough to see if I need a muzzle brake or a trigger job though. I haven't noticed any major accuracy issues with the Accubonds, but what I have read is the Accubonds aren't real accurate and that is what led me to the ELD-X's. They seem to get great reviews and a buddy of mine shoots them. At some point I need to make a decision and start working on a load so that I can get a custom turret built for my scope.

What are your thoughts on these bullet choices?

 

[GKPrice]

I'd not use Bal tips on elk. Premiums only, there are plenty to choose from

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[GKPrice]

I'd not use Bal tips on elk. Premiums only, there are plenty to choose from

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You will get plenty of the "I've used cup n cores for years with all one shot kills" crowd but it'll only take one hit with an inferior bullet and the resultant track job to make you a believer in bonded core or monolithics

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[ckleeves]

Some guns flat out love Accubonds. If you don't care about a high BC they are a great bullet. Always seen good performance on game with them. I have a few guns that like the eld-x but some certainly don't. Try both and see.

 

[hodgeman]

I've shot Accubonds in my .300 almost exclusively for the last 11 or so years. Something like 40 or so critters.

Never had a reason to try anything else- the are accurate in my rifle and do what I want on game up to moose.

 

[Broz]

I use to be a solid bullet guy. I will spare the brand name. After a heart breaking episode about 10 years ago with two wounded elk, both recovered, both double lunged, one, a day too late to save the meat, one finished 4.7 miles later at dark in a snow storm. I said enough is enough. I switched to a cup core fragmenting bullet and have never looked back. Soon after this I took employment managing a large Ranch. We have hosted management elk hunts, allowed public access and taken a gaggle of elk. 76 in one season of which I was there for the kill of at least 70 of those. Durring this time, my best estimation is, I have been there for the taking, field dressing, and retrieval of between 300 to 400 elk. I have seen them taken with many varieties of projectiles. I choose to use a fragmenting cup core bullet. I smile at the verbiage "Premium Hunting Bullet" Ok, what I prefer to use is a "Premium Killing Bullet" . When considering an "Elk Bullet" I suggest this. Use a bullet that will destroy vitals. Heart, Lungs, and major arteries. A low expansion bullet, or non expanding bullet, through both lungs on an elk, can lead to tracking a wounded animal with enough stamina to wear any of us into the dirt. A fragmenting bullet placed reasonably well will induce massive internal bleeding and they simply can not travel without blood flow or with low oil pressure. When choosing a fragmenting bullet, or almost any elk bullet in my opinion, choose a heavy for caliber offering. This will encourage enough mass to fragment off a percentage and still leave a percentage to carry on destroying any vital organ it gets close to. I have recorded terminal data for truck loads of elk killed. The majority of recovered fragmenting bullets I use weigh in with about 50% retention.

I believe the most perfect storm we could create for elk, and a high percentage of lost game, would be a high velocity light for caliber bullet. I refuse to be a part of these type hunts.

In the end, I believe the best advice is this. Know your bullet and how it works. Use that knowledge to your best advantage and do the best damn job you can to place it well. Vitals are KEY here. If you create a large wound canal , and cause huge loss of blood with internal bleeding. You will be enjoying elk steak soon.

One of 3 that looked pretty much the same taken from the far side of bulls this past season. 50% retention.





Best of luck on your upcoming elk hunt.

Jeff

 

[HiMtnHntr]

Hard to argue with that kind of experience and logic. The only issue with high fragmenting bullets is meat damage if the shot is not perfect. But, tracking wounded elk is undoubtedly worse.

 

[robtattoo]

I've been fiddling with long range, high BC bullets in my 6.5 for the last couple of years. ELDx & Berger VLDs...I've come to the conclusion that they're probably amazing if you're using then as designed: ie. At long ranges & therefore moderate velocity.

My Swede is pushing a 140gn bullet at around 2750ish & I've killed deer & antelope from 40-300yds. At every range I've experienced they've exploded into fragments, producing wide but shallow wound channels & only 4 out of 13 drt kills. I used Partitions this season. Problem solved. 4:4 drt, no runners.

I've got to say, if you're used to the caliber & have a bullet you've been happy with in the past, don't screw with it. Super skinny, slippery, high BC bullets have their place (probably) but what's been working will keep on working. Stick with Partitions or Accubonds (whichever your rifle prefers) & go kill shit.

 

[Lucafu1]

Barnes TSX and TTSX

 

[Ryan Avery]

I've had the worst luck with Barnes bullets. Lots of long blood trails.

I will stick to my terrible C&C bullets


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[AK Troutbum]

I've had the worst luck with Barnes bullets. Lots of long blood trails.

I will stick to my terrible C&C bullets


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That's surprising. I've had extremely good results with TTSX bullets, both on paper and in the field. I've only used them in a few light wt. mountain rifles, so I haven't tried them in everything, but everything that I have tried them in, they have performed better than anything else. If that makes any sense.


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[Elkfitness]

I've had the worst luck with Barnes bullets. Lots of long blood trails.

I will stick to my terrible C&C bullets


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Ryan,

Do you think this is due to your long range shots (which I admire!) and the velocity isn't there for the lead free bullets at extended range and they pencil for you, or have you seen issues even when velocity should have caused some expansion.

 

[ReddingArcher]

I've used Barnes for the last couple years and was really pleased with them up until this year when both the bucks I killed didn't leave a drop of blood on the ground. The first buck made it about 100 yards or so before tipping over. The shot was right at 400 yards and fortunately I was in a burn and able to watch him go down otherwise it would have probably been a difficult track job. The second buck was under 150 and spun a couple circles and went down but still no blood on the ground and not much to speak of one the bucks body. It's unfortunate that California is going to lead free ammo statewide in 2019 so I'll use it when forced to.
I picked up a t3x in 300 WM and broke it in with 200 grain eld-x bullets and I have been really impressed with their accuracy. Hopefully in the next few months I'll be able to try them out on some hogs to see how they do on animals. I'm sure they'll do just fine.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Ryan,

Do you think this is due to your long range shots (which I admire!) and the velocity isn't there for the lead free bullets at extended range and they pencil for you, or have you seen issues even when velocity should have caused some expansion.

I've never shot a Barnes bullet over 500 yards. While the old moly coated Barnes X bullets really sucked. The TTSX are better, but still have let me down on whitetails, bears and elk with several 100 yard plus blood trails. I watched a cow elk do a victory lap in a burn with a hole in both her lungs! I would guess she traveled well over 600 yards. Had a whitetail buck go a long ways. That was the last time I shot a Barnes bullet. Thank god for snow

Once I switch to Bergers, I notice MUCH faster death at all ranges.

 

[PathFinder]

The biggest problems with match bullets come from shooting light for caliber ones at high velocities. Go long and heavy, and there should be no problem. I had zero penetration issues shooting 140 ELD Match out of my 6.5 Creedmoor this year. That included a bull elk @ 300 yards, and deer from 250-580 yards. I recovered two bullets under the hide on the offside (one from the elk, one from a muley @477) and both were around 50% weight retention. The fragmentation from a bullet like that is nasty. I love finding tons of little pieces of shrapnel along the wound channel. It all equals more tissue damage and bleeding that wouldn't happen with a mono metal or controlled expansion projectile. I haven't had a bad experience with a Barnes but I prefer the fragmentary effect of the match bullets.

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[bhylton]

what is the long range crowds experience the high bc, fragmenting bullets on hard shot angles at different ranges?

 

[Broz]

what is the long range crowds experience the high bc, fragmenting bullets on hard shot angles at different ranges?

In all my years of hunting one thing I have finally learned. The most important thing at any distance, any caliber, any weapon, is, "Knowing when NOT to Shoot" This was true back when I used Barnes, and is true with my current use of Bergers. A shot that is presented with a poor shot angle is a shot that is at higher risk to fail with all bullets. Have I killed elk with a hard quartering away shot ? Yes. Did they go farther than I wanted? Yes. Did I cuss myself for taking the risk after? Yes.

My experience with Barnes mirrors Ryan's. That's why I changed back to a cup core about 10 yrs ago.

It is my opinion, and this is drawn from 112 elk kills in the past two seasons, many of which I field dressed, that meat loss is all about impact velocity and shot placement. If you really want to ruin some meat, and possibly loose most of the meat from both front shoulders, Shoot a light for caliber, higher velocity bullet, solid copper, controlled expansion, or fragmenting cup core with a high impact velocity into the front shoulder of a broadside elk. Shoot the same bullet into the crease behind the shoulder and exit ribs far side and loose 1 to 2 pounds of trimmings. Or do as I do and shoot a heavy for caliber, cup core into the crease behind the shoulder 4" low of center and loose even less.

These are my personal experiences and I am offering exactly what I see again and again.

Jeff

 

[Broz]

Super skinny, slippery, high BC bullets have their place (probably) but what's been working will keep on working. Stick with Partitions or Accubonds (whichever your rifle prefers) & go kill shit.

In an effort to understand, how can a one given caliber of bullet be "Super skinny" compared to another bullet of the same caliber? Are you suggesting higher sectional density is not preferred in terms of terminal performance?

Thanks
Jeff

 

[robtattoo]

In an effort to understand, how can a one given caliber of bullet be "Super skinny" compared to another bullet of the same caliber? Are you suggesting higher sectional density is not preferred in terms of terminal performance?

Thanks
Jeff

I'm not saying it isn't preferred, all I'm saying is that the modern, high BC, long range bullets haven't worked well for me, compared to more traditional bullets in the same caliber. I'm sure that for their intended use, at longer ranges or slower speeds, they're great. At closer ranges they've not performed to my expectation.

Comparing a 140VLD (in .264) to a Partition of the same weight is where I'm getting the 'long & skinny'

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[black dawg]

My experience with monos hasn't been very good. First animal was a black bear at 20 yards with a 130 ttsx out of a 270 loaded fast. Bear was facing us looking right at us, now or never kind of shot. Bullet entered middle of chest and exited right hind quarter missing any real bone. A follow up shot from another rifle put it down for good about 100 yards from first shot. No question bear would have died, but there was absolutely no blood from the first shot. I do realize that is a pretty poor shot angle, but really figured at 20 yards it would have been a done deal.
It was a very exciting evening for my 10 year old (his first big game animal) and his dad.

The second time was a smallish whitetail doe at about 30 yards with a 90? grn ttsx in a 243. Perfectly broadside, and good shot placement, Doe was obviously hit and ran off with the other 5 deer it was with. There was one spot of blood in the 50 yards that deer ran about the size of a pin head, and since these does all split up quickly after the shot, it was kind of hard to find this one.

both animals showed no sign of expansion whatsoever. Maybe we were using them wrong, as I think they would probably work pretty good aimed at bone??
Back to partitions in both rifles, with good penetration (always exit) and obvious good, violent expansion.