Building a Shorty - now what to chamber it in?

[Wapiti1]

Good point on suppressor ratings... I have the Griffin Armament Sportsman Ultralight right now... rated for 22" barrel for 300 WM and 16" for .308.

I already shoot it on my "shorty" 300 WSM with 22" barrel but I want to go shorter...

Perhaps I need a new can to go with this hahah!

I assumed you would get a new can. Cause, why use an old can. Who would do that?

Jeremy

 

[fatbacks]

You know that new Dead Air Nomad Titanium looks pretty nice.....


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[TxxAgg]

Bump

 

[robtattoo]

Call me stupid (most do...) but why not just chamber it in whatever you like?
Im sure if you did the math, the .308 is going to lose less per inch than any other chambering, but even if it does, it's still not going to be as fast as a .300rum. More efficient, maybe, burning all its powder, yeah, why not. But a faster caliber in a 24" barrel is still going to be a faster caliber in a 16" barrel. IF speed is a major concern in the first place, that is. They can both use the same bullet & with monos, we all know, speed is essential. Yes a silly rum-like chambering might fart out some powder from the muzzle, but it's going to be getting a hell of a lot more burnt than the .308 before then. Calisafe bullets being what they are, i'd rather start one out at 3200fps than 2750.

 

[fatbacks]

Call me stupid (most do...) but why not just chamber it in whatever you like?
Im sure if you did the math, the .308 is going to lose less per inch than any other chambering, but even if it does, it's still not going to be as fast as a .300rum. More efficient, maybe, burning all its powder, yeah, why not. But a faster caliber in a 24" barrel is still going to be a faster caliber in a 16" barrel. IF speed is a major concern in the first place, that is. They can both use the same bullet & with monos, we all know, speed is essential. Yes a silly rum-like chambering might fart out some powder from the muzzle, but it's going to be getting a hell of a lot more burnt than the .308 before then. Calisafe bullets being what they are, i'd rather start one out at 3200fps than 2750.

Totally agree. I sometimes get frustrated on this forum about the which caliber arguments. My main concern was if cartridges all lose velocity in linear way or if some lose them more exponentially. Anyhow, leaning towards 7 SAUM or 300 WSM - I have brass and dies for both already.

Also, pulled the trigger on the Dead Air Nomad Ti this morning. Talked to them and they said to keep the barrel longer than 12.5" and any caliber up to 300 RUM should do fine as long as I avoid full auto.

 

[Gearqueer]

I went to an urban sniper school with a dude shooting a 16” .308. We didn’t shoot past 500. Let’s just say that he switched setups to something more manageable after the first day. Then again, it was unsuppressed so it could be apples/oranges to what you’re planning.

I will be interested to hear how your build shakes out once it’s done and the can comes in. What are you thinking it will weigh?


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[robtattoo]

Totally agree. I sometimes get frustrated on this forum about the which caliber arguments. My main concern was if cartridges all lose velocity in linear way or if some lose them more exponentially. Anyhow, leaning towards 7 SAUM or 300 WSM - I have brass and dies for both already.

All I know is, that the smaller the bore, the more it loses per inch. However, a .22-250 is STILL going to spank a .358 in a 16" barrel.
I have 2 abbreviated rifles. 1in .308, ironically, and one in .358. I'm happy with either out to 300, but that's really the limit & yes, they're both LOOOUD.
Wouldn't stop me hacking big lumps off a WSM though. I like short & handy. I find anything over 20" to be unnecessary for my needs. Out of your 2 options, i'd go with the 7SAUM, but only because it's quicker & heavy bullets aren't really so much of an issue with monos.

 

[OXN939]

You know that new Dead Air Nomad Titanium looks pretty nice.....


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Man personally, I would make it a really nice .308 and just know that shots are 300 yards and in. Benefits include: ammo/ component availability, cost, relatively light recoil, long barrel life, ballistic efficiency, easy external ballistics. Please post when you get her put together!

 

[Wmmichael20]

What about the 270wsm or 257 Roberts.

 

[DRUSS]

A lot of good options here 300 wsm, 7 wsm, 7 saum, 7-08,maybe 7 Sherman short? 325wsm?
338 federal or 338RCM would be my direction if thinkin more on the bear side.
But I really like my 325WSM its still factory at 23"

 

[False_Cast]

Lots of shots in the dark and guesses. I don’t think it needs to be that hard and/or uncertain. This is a math question and a ballistic calculator is going to take out the guessing.

1. Pick a bullet (sounds like copper mono of some type).
2. Choose the maximum distance at which this rifle will be used on your intended target (500 yards?).
3. Determine your minimum impact velocity at xxx (500?) yards (which would make this easier as they seem to have reliable manufacturer recommendations of minimum impact velocity).
4. Pick the chambering that will get your chosen bullet to your chosen distance at or above your chosen minimum impact velocity with the least amount of recoil/blast.

In that order.

 

[Lawnboi]

Lots of shots in the dark and guesses. I don’t think it needs to be that hard and/or uncertain. This is a math question and a ballistic calculator is going to take out the guessing.

1. Pick a bullet (sounds like copper mono of some type).
2. Choose the maximum distance at which this rifle will be used on your intended target (500 yards?).
3. Determine your minimum impact velocity at xxx (500?) yards (which would make this easier as they seem to have reliable manufacturer recommendations of minimum impact velocity).
4. Pick the chambering that will get your chosen bullet to your chosen distance at or above your chosen minimum impact velocity with the least amount of recoil/blast.

In that order.

This, and I also personally would keep a mono over 2k if at all possible. Haven’t taken many animals with them but the general consensus is to run them fast.

Hence why I recommend the 6.5 (insert your funny here) creedmoor. If you wanna burn more powder though have at it! I just don’t see a 16-18” 308 making it to 500 maintaining 2k FPS with a mono.

 

[TauPhi111]

In a short barrel, having a larger caliber while keeping the case the same seems to yield better performance in short barrels. Like another member above, I also have a 358 Win with an 18" barrel. It is probably my favorite rifle. 52 grains of TAC and a 200 gr TTSX gets me about 2550 out of that short barrel. Only thing is the BC of that bullet isn't the best, and at Rocky Mountain altitudes, you can't get much past 400-450 yards and maintain reliable expansion velocity. For that reason, as also suggested a few times, I would look at the 338 Federal. You should get similar short barrel performance to the 358 and have bullets in similar weights but with much higher BC that will extend your range. You can also use copper monos that open a little easier like the Hammer and CEB bullets over Barnes or GMX.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

I have pursued a project like this, and also prefer ttsx bullets. I settled on a simple ruger American compact with 16” barrel in 308. I intended to get it rebored to 338 federal or 358 win, but I decided to use it first in its original 308 state. I worked up a 130 ttsx load that starts around 3100 with TAC.
Two years ago I headed into unit 13 for a caribou with this little rifle and light copper bullets, to find a grizzly coming into camp. Luckily I spotted it before it saw me and I was set up when it came into a clear shot. I’ll admit I was a bit puckered knowing it was only a 130 gr bullet but I had faith in what the strong copper could do. Nevertheless, I knew shot placement had to be perfect.
Fired a single round, reloaded immediately, and tried to find my target again through the scope. But no sight and after a couple seconds I heard what bear hunters describe as the ‘death moan’.
Upon skinning it, I found the exit would was a good 3-4 feet beyond the entrance on the shoulder.
That little setup proved itself to me that evening.
My intention with this rifle was to also be a lightweight sheep rifle and when I crunched the numbers, the 308 would push the critical expansion velocity farther than the 338 federal or 358 win, so I have settled on keeping it as is.
However, if I would do it all over, I might consider doing a 338 RCM with a 18-20” barrel. Talk about a do it all rifle. I recall a member here posting about a build like this a couple years ago.
But, in the 16” barrel category and looking to go up to 500 yards, I think the 308 will be hard to beat, possibly 7-08. But the 308 just has so many bullet options, I think I will move to the 150 ttsx and not look back for this rifle.

 

[eoperator]

I feel I hit a bit of a sweet spot, (to me anyway)
18" 308
lapua brass
win std primer
cfe223
152 hammers
2900fps (labradar)

18" barrel muzzle blast seems much better to me than 16". Seems to be a solid 400yrd load and very accurate but cfe223 is not the most temp stable.

 

[fatbacks]

Just to update this thread. I think I would still like to build a shorty but just got back from the brooks range sheep hunting. I had three separate days where I was playing cat and mouse with really nice rams and couldn’t close the distance below 500 yds. I can shoot 500 yds all day prone in good conditions. Chose not to shoot sitting behind my rifle on a very steep hillside in a crosswind and rain with a ram of a lifetime quartering away.....

Anyhow, the short of it is while I’m mountain hunting I don’t want to handicap myself on effective range of my rifle. I don’t think I am going to build a super short rifle for mountain hunting purposes even though it would be super handy.


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[AkMtnRunner]

I salute your restraint on that ram, Fatbacks. Been in a similar situation myself, though it was a 'maybe' legal situation.

It does make sense for a sheep rifle to have a bit longer barrel and reap the benefits of a faster round. Besides, unless we're having to go through endless alders, a longer barrel is well worth its weight. The 280 or 300 WSM can send some high BC bullets pretty fast without needing too long of a barrel.

 

[Jmort1754]

Why not the 338 Sherman max ?

 

[Jpterry]

Anything much more powerful than a 308 is just going to throw unburned powder out the tube. Hard to beat 308 for 16" barrel.

 

[Alaskanopolis]

Just to update this thread. I think I would still like to build a shorty but just got back from the brooks range sheep hunting. I had three separate days where I was playing cat and mouse with really nice rams and couldn’t close the distance below 500 yds. I can shoot 500 yds all day prone in good conditions. Chose not to shoot sitting behind my rifle on a very steep hillside in a crosswind and rain with a ram of a lifetime quartering away.....

Anyhow, the short of it is while I’m mountain hunting I don’t want to handicap myself on effective range of my rifle. I don’t think I am going to build a super short rifle for mountain hunting purposes even though it would be super handy.


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I have a 16" 338 RCM that weighs ~5.75lbs naked; shoots 225gr Cutting Edge ER Raptors at 2600fps. That gets you out to about 530 yards, if going by the general minimum velocity rule on 1800fps, but gets you out to about 780 yards if going by Cutting Edge's minimum recommended velocity of 1500fps for the ER Raptors. I shot a sheep at 230 yards with it this season and the ER Raptors performed very well. They're a very destructive bullet. The RCM cartridges perform very well with shorter barrels. Back when that rifle had a 20' barrel it was shooting 230gr ELD-X at 2730. But there isn't much for factory options so you'll have to load.