Building a house, is this normal ?

[grfox92]

They have doubled here in mt.

That does seem high for a Midwest build but on par or even low for a MT build.

I built a two bedroom house once, and deeply regret it. If I would have added a 150 sq ft bedroom the house would be worth $100k more.

Yea, I wasnt sure If maybe my perspective was biased based on my small circle, but $40 an hour is the new $20 an hour here in Wyoming.

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[Wprinkle]

Reliable, quality skilled tradesmen and labourers are rare and expensive. This may have changed but at one point the US got most of its lumber from Canada, now the tariffs, add in the building boom that happening in some states that are taking all the Liberal state refugees. When I built my house the builder was awesome at showing me where I was wasting money.

Example: I wanted this certain granite countertops for the Kitchen. He showed me two samples and I really couldn't tell the difference. One would cost $14,000 and the other $3,000. One was from Oklahoma and the other packed off a mountain on a donkey's back in South America...

Also builders talk to one another and are probably friends. They will all stay close enough to one another that everyone gets a cut of the pie...

 

[Muddler]

My take away is everything is subject to change until it's written down in a contract and signed. Whether you stay with this guy or someone else, get everything in writing before you do anything. I'd ask for an itemized quote (not sure how unreasonable that is) and know how screw ups are going to be handled. I'd make sure the pricing is locked in or there is clear language about it. Like what if Trump throws another tariff tantrum and puts more tariffs on copper after you sign the contract? Your electrical stuff is gonna get more expensive. Who eats that?

 

[JGross1]

Sounds like the builder might have gotten wind of the other price.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Me and wife are going to buy or build in a few years after all the kids are out.
Looking at 900-1200 sf max.
Everyone needs to wake up and quit building these crazy big homes.
I have been in the same 1450 sf home for 24 years and most of those were with 5 people.
Builders now are not builders of th past.
Dishonest has went up and quality has went down.

 

[Nine Banger]

It was by far the hardest year of my life and I have to credit my wife for taking care of the kids and personal life because I spent every minute of that year working on our new home. But it was entirely worth it in my opinion.

I'm thinking for a layperson it could take twice the time too.

I've seen it play out a few times where a wannabe GC or high control individual builds their own house. If an employee came to me with this goal I would put them on unpaid leave.

It doesn't sound like OP wants to build but my advice to OP is don't build a house with your girlfriend. Get married or stay out of it while she's building.

 

[bowhuntercoop]

My take away is everything is subject to change until it's written down in a contract and signed. Whether you stay with this guy or someone else, get everything in writing before you do anything. I'd ask for an itemized quote (not sure how unreasonable that is) and know how screw ups are going to be handled. I'd make sure the pricing is locked in or there is clear language about it. Like what if Trump throws another tariff tantrum and puts more tariffs on copper after you sign the contract? Your electrical stuff is gonna get more expensive. Who eats that?

You do it haha, every builder clause I’ve seen the prices are subject to change.

My in laws built a barndo last year, they gave them an itemized list like you mentioned, but that’s for the initial quote…subject to change and you sign agreeing to it.

Thankfully they had a great general and overall everything went smooth and according to plan, actually hit the deadline as well.

Building is crazy expensive these days. They built a house in Myrtle beach in 2016 that was double the size, and half the cost to build. Those days are long gone. 200 sq ft for builder grade is the new normal and custom stuff you’re gunna be in the 300-500 per square depending on location.

I have 2 very close friends who build custom houses for a living, one in pa and one in Wyoming. The number of people who pay 600-1000 a sq ft is quite shocking, more money then brains.

 

[BLJ]

Wages have nearly doubled in the past 5 years due to the increased cost of living.

Is it the same margin as it was 5 years ago or are you able to make more money?

Just curious if it’s still proportional.

 

[grfox92]

Is it the same margin as it was 5 years ago or are you able to make more money?

Just curious if it’s still proportional.

Everything is still marked up at the same rate. Markup has always been 10-20%.

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[BLJ]

I was meaning money in/money out.

If wages double and cost of living doubles, is it a wash?

If it’s proportional to cost of living there isn’t any extra.
It just sounds like there is extra.

I think that’s lost in translation sometimes.

Just curious if I’m looking at it correctly.

 

[Jon Boy]

Me and wife are going to buy or build in a few years after all the kids are out.
Looking at 900-1200 sf max.
Everyone needs to wake up and quit building these crazy big homes.
I have been in the same 1450 sf home for 24 years and most of those were with 5 people.
Builders now are not builders of th past.
Dishonest has went up and quality has went down.

I’d encourage you to go bigger, building cost per sq ft goes down as you go bigger. You won’t be saving yourself as much money as you think staying at 1200 vs 1600. 900 sq ft is a complete waste.

 

[strousek]

Maybe not for the OP to do the building and complete labor himself but he can at least GC the house to save on mark up. That said you will need to find reputable contractors and not get ripped off by the cheapest guy in town.

Building a house with a girlfriend or wife can be a make or break. I was lucky enough that my wife had planned our build out for several years leading up to breaking ground. She had the layout and pretty much every finish picked out from the start so it was easy for us. I gave her the wood species that I was building the cabinets and trim with and she picked the rest. I would say it really helped our relationship, even though we are 15 years married, as it showed trust and confidence in one another.

I would highly suggest to anyone building to take the time before the design process to walk every open house and new build you can in your area. This way you can measure rooms and decide the right size for you. Look at all the various design layouts and finishes to decide what you want before you begin. That way you only change your mind on half this stuff while building and not all of it.

 

[bozeman]

Now you can understand why the 'tiny home' movement and manufactured homes are once again gaining ground.

 

[Jon Boy]

Is it the same margin as it was 5 years ago or are you able to make more money?

Just curious if it’s still proportional.

The margin is a fair bit less in my area now. Markup is the same 10-20%.

How ever in 2018, a carpenter was making 20-25 an hour and getting billed at $45. I bought a house for 250k. Now anything with a heart beat is making 35-40/hour and getting billed at $75 while that same exact house is worth $600k.

 

[grfox92]

I was meaning money in/money out.

If wages double and cost of living doubles, is it a wash?

If it’s proportional to cost of living there isn’t any extra.
It just sounds like there is extra.

I think that’s lost in translation sometimes.

Just curious if I’m looking at it correctly.

Oh for sure. No, laborers arent making any more money. There are plenty of GCs throwing INSANE prices at jobs. Like criminal markup. They do this all the time. If some one bites, and there are plenty of people who just get one price and go with it, they do one job for the price of 2 and then it doesnt matter if they wait a few months to get another job, because they made so much on the last one it doesnt even matter.

I was talking to a drywall guy the other day, one of the best in the business. He was telling me a story about submitting a bid for $6k for a job. The customer freaked out and said his bid was too expensive and way outside his budget. So he gave the customer the number of another well known local drywall guy. Didn't tell him his price or anything. The second guy submitted a bid for $12k. Double.

The first guy pays his guys the same as the second guy. They both have the same level of skill. So the second guy is pocketing probably $8k in profit if he gets the job. His guys still nake the same hourly rate regardless lol.

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[Coopsdaddy]

I’d encourage you to go bigger, building cost per sq ft goes down as you go bigger. You won’t be saving yourself as much money as you think staying at 1200 vs 1600. 900 sq ft is a complete waste.

1600 is a waste.
1200 is a great place for two people.
900 is small but if layed out perfect I wouldn’t worry about it.
We will have a garage or shop for both vehicles.
I haven’t had a house payment in 20 years and will pay cash.
At 175 sf at least in my area is a 70000 diff.
I dont need 1600 with two people.
I just raised three kids in 1450.
I’m downsizing,i pay cash and I sleep way better than all my friends with there oversized over mortgaged home.
That’s 5 hunts and 5 vacations with my wife I can go on in the next 10 years..
Just how I look at things.

 

[Reburn]

For the crew of 4 guys I work with daily, it costs around $1500 a day to have us on a job site. We are a highly skilled group with the ability to build just about anything from commercial buildings, to elaborate custom homes to insane equine buildings and barns.

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The laborers here are 225-250 cash a day. The skilled guys are $350 a day.

 

[grfox92]

The laborers here are 225-250 cash a day. The skilled guys are $350 a day.

Sounds about right. Where are you located?

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[Reburn]

Austin metro.

 

[Balderdash]

This is the simple answer.

Residential home contractors range from professional craftsmen you would love to see marry your daughter to a barely alive meth head looking to do as little as possible to "earn" his next hit and everyone in between. He'll be by to steal some copper and tools at some point as a bonus!

Its a business with very low barriers to entry and with people now willing to pay for all manner of shitty work, its saturated with shitty people. There are great ones out there. They're usually very busy and more expensive but what you pay for them in known costs will be more than worth it to avoid the innumerable hidden cost the shitheads will stick you with.

I've worked in home construction for over 30 years.

Through highschool and college I worked for a small contractor. We did everything from new opulent houses to additions and remodels. I also ran my own business as a sideline while being a full time Fireman/Paramedic. I quit taking contract work on when we had kids, and instead we bought a couple of rentals and a house in the country that needs work. So, I'm still working most of my days off, but now mostly on my own projects.

The common low grade work I see these days is mind blowing. But people can't hire anyone, so anything goes. Its just hard to get anyone to actually show up and be responsible.

Wages in this area for most trades haven't doubled since covid - not even close. But prices to have work done sure have. One major change I see vs years ago is the proliferation of middle men that all get a cut. We used to build a house from the ground up; framing through flooring if it was hardwood and tile/stone. We had subs for hvac, plumbing, and electric, but for everything else, you dealt directly wirh the guy I worked for, who was also on the job working most days. Now its common that there's seperate crews for each little phase of the build, and often times the guy who owns the roofing, flooring, siding, window, trim, etc company has crews that he sub contracts with. That's a lot of folks getting a piece of the pie compared to years ago. A roofing contractor I know well hasn't had his own crews in years. He books the work and subcontracts the jobs to one of several work crews he deals with. In turn, some of them will sub contract it out to other crews.