Build me a custom rifle

[Harvey_NW]

What's funny is for the purposes of a hunting rifle it doesn't make a difference at all anyway. Even if Bartlein/Krieger or whoever are slightly more precise. Who cares if one barrel shoots 0.4 MOA vs 0.6 MOA for 5 shot groups or whatever? But to assert that Sako barrels are better is just nonsensical until he defines what better means. It makes more sense to harp on the trigger reliability or other things that are actually true.

He is just some guy on the internet, but he's got a pretty compelling data set.

 

[JohnJohnson]

He is just some guy on the internet, but he's got a pretty compelling data set.

Compelling dataset of what? Measured how? If he's published it that'd be pretty interesting and I apologize for criticizing him. From this thread alone it was just vaguely hinting at experience so it's not really something I can judge.

For pure precision I'm not sure how it'll contrast with decades of Krieger/Bartlein barrels winning benchrest competitions with miniscule groups. But is it a measurement of POI shift/group size change in different environmentals over the course of dozens of barrels or something? Is it just barrel life, and if so has he tried out the 400MODBB barrel material Bartlein does for extended barrel life? Are there rankings of aftermarket barrel brands for those things?

 

[Harvey_NW]

Compelling dataset of what? Measured how? If he's published it that'd be pretty interesting and I apologize for criticizing him. From this thread alone it was just vaguely hinting at experience so it's not really something I can judge.

It's been posted in other threads and I'm sure it will be here soon.

For pure precision I'm not sure how it'll contrast with decades of Krieger/Bartlein barrels winning benchrest competitions with miniscule groups. But is it a measurement of POI shift/group size change in different environmentals over the course of dozens of barrels or something? Is it just barrel life, and if so has he tried out the 400MODBB barrel material Bartlein does for extended barrel life? Are there rankings of aftermarket barrel brands for those things?

I can't answer for anyone else. What I can say from my own perspective is I don't think you'll get a fair comparison regardless of how you approach it, because of the way they're commonly used. Take Rokslide for example, you're obviously aware of the Tikka support and preference, and there are hundreds of threads and posts of guys taking factory Tikkas and shooting ~1" 10 shot groups. Most of the guys out there on the interwebs with cut rifled custom barrels scoff at the idea of that, and still believe in nodes from testing 3 shot groups. It becomes a redundant argument. I own both, and both shoot great. The only way I could say a factory Tikka is better, would be if cost was included. Because I'm into my factory Tikka barreled action for much less than my Tikka action with a custom chambered Bartlein screwed into it, and it doesn't shoot any tighter 10 shot groups.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Oh I'm just a basement dweller that's never shot a rifle or gone outside. Now that we've got that out of the way, enlighten me as to how Sako/Tikka barrels have been better for you when compared to Bartlein, Krieger, etc. And how do the Sako barrels stack up against Bartlein's 400MODBB material? Instead of vaguely hinting at experience you can educate us ignoramuses.

I don't look at just "accuracy" when I make the claim that the guns or barrels are "better". It's a combination of things that stack up to make the gun "better" for hunting in general.

So let's say on a 22-28 lb custom bench rest gun (I used to shoot these with 28"-32"" Bartlein and Kreiger barrels) I see an average of .25-.65" better 20 round 100 yard groups, when compared to an 8 lb Tikka or Sako 22" barreled rifle shooting from the same bench. These would have been the "averages" when comparing dozens of samples of each side by side on concrete benches. This would include anything from 18" lite contours to 32" heavy varmint and most things in between on both dedicated custom hunting rifles and full benchrest/long range varmint guns used for IBS, NBRSA, and VHA competitions (we used bartlein, kreiger, proof, and few carbon 6 and McGowen). The average "increase" in accuracy at these values generally go out the window as soon as you get off a bench and shoot from a realistic hunting shot position.

On average, when shooting both hand load and factory ammo, the Sako and Tikka barrels are less finnicky about ammo selection, less finnicky about needing to be cleaned, have far less samples of "burner" "tumbler" and "hummer" barrels, less finicky about barrel temperature swings, and on average will have a 25% increase in field longevity, meaning rounds down range especially when combined with being used in adverse weather conditions (lots of times more than 25%).

The actions and triggers have been found to be much more reliable on Sako and Tikka rifles in what I have seen in the field. I believe this topic has been beat to death on this site in general so I'd suggest doing some reading on that. I can go into detail on what I've seen personally with dozens of samples of Remington based customs being directly compared to Sako/Tikka guns; but it would be beating a dead horse at this point. I can expand on my experience via PM if you'd like.

So when I came in and suggested that OP should just buy a factory Sako rifle at the price point mentioned in the first post, I wasn't trying to say that "nobody needs a custom gun". It's fun to build rifles and shoot different guns and try out new equipment. I do it all the time.

For the general Rokslide application (backpack hunting with hard field use in adverse weather conditions) a stainless Tikka or Sako rifle will outperform anything else mentioned in this thread so far when taking into account reliability, accuracy with multiple lot numbers and different bullets, barrel longevity, and action/trigger longevity.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

has he tried out the 400MODBB barrel material Bartlein does for extended barrel life?

I have not. It's been a while since I used anything from Bartlein. Would be curious to try it.

 

[JohnJohnson]

The average "increase" in accuracy at these values generally go out the window as soon as you get off a bench and shoot from a realistic hunting shot position.

Definitely on board with the idea that the differences in precision between custom barrels and factory Sako is a non-factor for the applications people have here.

On average, when shooting both hand load and factory ammo, the Sako and Tikka barrels are less finnicky about ammo selection

My sample sizes are much lower but my stainless Bartlein barrels have basically shot everything well. My Proof carbon is pickier but not unreasonable. To be honest I'm not sure how much of that to ascribe to it being a carbon barrel though. I'll soon have a new stainless Benchmark to try out for the first time so I'll have to see there. The wait time for Bartlein was way too long for this new build I have coming in. In my comparatively limited experience, while my Tikka CTR shoots very well, I don't think it's any more or less picky on factory ammo compared to my customs. Though man Tikka barrels are SLOW. At least the ones I've encountered so far.

The actions and triggers have been found to be much more reliable on Sako and Tikka rifles in what I have seen in the field. I believe this topic has been beat to death on this site in general so I'd suggest doing some reading on that.

I never disagreed with the action/trigger part. Though I do think Impact/Lone Peak have closed the gap in action reliability at least in part. But they'll always be limited by the R700 trigger system. Hopefully when Geissele starts making the Super 700 again it'll be as reliable as it was before.

For the general Rokslide application (backpack hunting with hard field use in adverse weather conditions) a stainless Tikka or Sako rifle will outperform anything else mentioned in this thread so far when taking into account reliability, accuracy with multiple lot numbers and different bullets, barrel longevity, and action/trigger longevity.

I agree with most of this. One question, what do you mean by action longevity? Is that wrapped up in the durability thing or are you referring to long-term issues with the tenon threads or something?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I agree with most of this. One question, what do you mean by action longevity? Is that wrapped up in the durability thing or are you referring to long-term issues with the tenon threads or something?

Long term meaning being able to still function with basically no "upkeep" or replacement parts needed to the tune of over 20,000 rounds on multiple units. Screw a new barrel on and they just keep on working.

Other actions require replacement parts from full bolt assemblies and bolt handle failures to little things wearing out (sear springs, retaining pins, safety detent springs, you name it) sometimes before a barrel even goes.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Long term meaning being able to still function with basically no "upkeep" or replacement parts needed to the tune of over 20,000 rounds on multiple units. Screw a new barrel on and they just keep on working.

Other actions require replacement parts from full bolt assemblies and bolt handle failures to little things wearing out (sear springs, retaining pins, safety detent springs, you name it) sometimes before a barrel even goes.

I know of a couple guys with 15-20k rounds on their Impacts. I think one of them had to replace an extractor at about 8k rounds for some reason and the other has been smooth sailing. I wouldn't label that as much different from guys breaking their Tikka bolt stop pins which isn't that rare for competitors at least. I do think the meaningful reliability differences come into play with the triggers though.

I need to figure out a way to ask Francis Colon about how often he has to make repairs to his Impact given he shoots about ~12,000-15,000 rounds per year.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I know of a couple guys with 15-20k rounds on their Impacts. I think one of them had to replace an extractor at about 8k rounds for some reason and the other has been smooth sailing. I wouldn't label that as much different from guys breaking their Tikka bolt stop pins which isn't that rare for competitors at least. I do think the meaningful reliability differences come into play with the triggers though.

I need to figure out a way to ask Francis Colon about how often he has to make repairs to his Impact given he shoots about ~12,000-15,000 rounds per year.

Yep bolt stop pins in the Tikkas are one potential problem area, although not common in most normal use.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

For OP's application and budget I'd recommend the following rifle (which is an exact setup that I own).

Sako 90 Varmint Stainless in .243

This comes with a stainless action, stainless fluted threaded 20" 1:8 twist barrel, stainless flush mount 6 round magazine. High quality oiled brown laminated wood stock. Integrated stainless pic rail for scope mounting. Action trued to size for the chambering which feels and cycles better than any custom gun I've ever owned. Throw a Minox ZP5 with THLR reticle on it and go shoot the piss out of it!

 

[Harvey_NW]

Sako 90 Varmint Stainless in .243

Damn you.. I just browsed the Sako 90 options and that Peak is pretty freakin well balanced for a lightweight mountain rifle!

 

[JohnJohnson]

For OP's application and budget I'd recommend the following rifle (which is an exact setup that I own).

Sako 90 Varmint Stainless in .243

This comes with a stainless action, stainless fluted threaded 20" 1:8 twist barrel, stainless flush mount 6 round magazine. High quality oiled brown laminated wood stock. Integrated stainless pic rail for scope mounting. Action trued to size for the chambering which feels and cycles better than any custom gun I've ever owned. Throw a Minox ZP5 with THLR reticle on it and go shoot the piss out of it!

As a side note, how do you track your shot count and barrel life through barrels? There used to be the IBI Shot Counter app but looks like it's gone now. Is there an easy electronic way to do it (other than making my own Excel sheet)? Or do you just use databooks?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

As a side note, how do you track your shot count and barrel life through barrels? There used to be the IBI Shot Counter app but looks like it's gone now. Is there an easy electronic way to do it (other than making my own Excel sheet)? Or do you just use databooks?

Little pocket sized, soft back field note books.

 

[aschuler]

As a side note, how do you track your shot count and barrel life through barrels? There used to be the IBI Shot Counter app but looks like it's gone now. Is there an easy electronic way to do it (other than making my own Excel sheet)? Or do you just use databooks?

I track the number of firings on my brass so I just use the brass batches I shoot through the barrel to track the shot count. It gets me close enough anyway.

 

[wy_will]

Here's what I'm making right now after extensive research for a long-range backpackable elk rifle. This is just under $4000 before glass, suppressor and bipod. Your question was for bare rifle, but I included the suppressor, glass, and bipod I will be pairing this with just to show.

View attachment 681072

Good luck on this journey! I would recommend making a decision and getting components ordered soon if you plan to use in September as many options out there have long lead times.

You can get a HNT26 for $1,200-$1,400

 

[wy_will]

300 PRC. 7 PRC is fine but both are a long action. Might as well go with the bigger option. Or 7-300 PRC for an easy wildcat.
Kelbly Atlas Lite action
MDT HNT26 with arca or Manners LRH
22” Proof Sendero or Bartlein #3
TiPro3 brake
Bix N Andy Tacsport Pro gator grip trigger
MDT AICS mags
Hawkins Hybrid Rings
Vortex Razor LHT or March FX scope

You can order a prefit barrel and assemble it all yourself.

 

[Schmo]

I’m starting my 3rd custom build.

First build:
Origin SA
Proof CF 7 SAUM prefit
AG Alpine Hunter stock
Hawkins M5 bottom metal
PVA Jetblast brake
Vortex Razor HD LHT 3-15 -

Second build:
TL3 LA
Proof CF 7 PRC prefit
AG Visigoth stock
Hawkins Hunter dbm and mag
PVA Jetblast break
Nightforce NX8, then a Trijicon Tenmile

Third build (just starting):
Tikka action
Proof CF 6.5 PRC prefit
Rokstok
High Desert Rifle Works BM and tikka mags
Pro 4 muzzle brake
Trijicon Tenmile 3-18 FFP MRAD

 

[JGood]

I own several different custom built rifles and this is just my experiance with them

In general, the going rate for a custom rifle starts at $2500-$3000. Anthing you pay over that is to decrease weight or because you dont mind over paying.

If you want semi-custom. Go buy an MPA and you'll be tickled for a long time.

Find a good gunsmith or get one of the prefits and learn to do it yourself. ive had a lot of success with bighorn actions on proof prefits and so have a lot of guys i compete with. That being said, if you dont want the headache, find a good smith who builds guns for PRS shooters. There's a match in your region. call the match director and ask who is building most of the rifles for the club.

1. the Lone Peak titanum action beats the snot out of the Defiance AnTi. Dont screw around with anything thats not on a Rem 700 clone. Direct mount rings and Intagrated rails are cool, but scope builders are making the tubes shorter and shorter so sometimes you need a real rail to move the optic around. Ideally 2 lug. Whatever you do.... get a long action with a magnum bolt face. Your options here are effectivly endless...6.5 CM all the way up to 300 prc. NO STANDARD BOLT FACE LONG ACTIONS

2. For barrels go as short as you possibly can but do a steel barel not carbon. this has been beat to death on here. Make sure you thread it for 5/8. You might save an ounce or two by getting a slim profile down to 1/2, but thats not worth it as it severely limits your brake and can options. (wait times are super fast right now for the latter and unless you live in Cantada, you should buy one!)

3. Pick a cartrage you can buy Hornady Match ammo for. The QC on mass produced Hornady match is incredible. I have an entire case of 308 Match that is shooting es of 14 and SD of 8. Finding ammo that is essoteric is a waste of time and money. You dont have to shoot animals with the Match ammo if you dont want, but being able to buy a lot of good cheap ammo will pay off. Forget buying $80 box ammo when you dont have to.

4. stocks are cool, you can get a little lighter with a stock than a chassis, but being able to fold the rifle in half has so many advantages its not even funny. Overall length is honestly more important than weight (within reason of course) whatever you do, make sure you can clip the stock seamlessly into an arca rail. round forends look nice but they provide you with literally nothing but asthetics. Theres a lot of light weight options out there for chassis not just the ones that are popular/sponsor rokslide.

5. Theres a lot of good triggers out there, but the TT Diamond/special is so easy to install and work on, no reason to get anything different.


Right now I'm hot on my 16" bartlein on a lone peak and XLR folding chassis (theyve gotten a little pricy if you ask me but i do like them...endless modification and weighting options). Its got an atacr 4-16 on top and hawkins direct mount rings. Run with a TBAC can.

The only thing to be careful of in my opinion is getting lost in the sauce on "light weight".
A $2500 custom rifle can easily become a $5000+ rifle if you get your rocks off on ultra light weight. they shoot no better, but you can save 2lbs.

However, there is no doubt lighter weight guns are harder to shoot. if you breathe on them wrong, the NPA shifts. i like a rifle around 9.5 to 11 lbs all in. this will save you money and heartache in the long run but YMMV.

 

[Hans_Grimsgaard]

Great information on here. I have a HNT26 chassis with a 6.5PRC Springfield Waypoint 2020 barreled action in there that’s been serving me well so far. Would like to get a custom barrelled action made up for the 156 Bergers, trying to decide if I would stick to a rem700 platform or go Tikka.

 

[packgoatguy]

Great information on here. I have a HNT26 chassis with a 6.5PRC Springfield Waypoint 2020 barreled action in there that’s been serving me well so far. Would like to get a custom barrelled action made up for the 156 Bergers, trying to decide if I would stick to a rem700 platform or go Tikka.

There are options with the rem700 that get you a bit lighter than the tikka. Mac Bros element, some of the ti actions, etc. So if weight is a priority, then the rem700 base will probably get you there easier. However if weight isn't your primary concern, then tikkas are easy to work with, feed well, etc.