bubble level + reticle/rifle cant

[TNKnoxville]

hmmm never thought of a 3rd axis issue!!!!!

 

[sndmn11]

The level is not perpendicular to the scope.

 

[Wrench]

This is just plumb perplexing.

Did you try scoping something that you know is plumb or level?.....a post, pole, building....etc.

Fwiw, I'm not a level guy....especially cheap Chinese vials.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Took a break from glassing midday yesterday and did some dry fires to pass the time. I was on a steep angle looking down dry firing to a rock about 500 yards away (lying down gun was perfectly still). I had to really cant my reticle to get the bubble level. I checked my scope when I got home and it was level. Does this seem right??

to illustrate the angle of the angle of the ground I was lying on, If I were to lay a board on the ground, the left side of the board would have had air under it.

Heres a picture of what I was seeing in the field

View attachment 467022

A bubble level is a mechanical device that runs on gravity.... for our purposes, gravity doesn't change.

The Three Mile Island accident happened partly because operators/engineers didn't want to trust their instrumentation.

A bubble level is pretty reliable instrumentation.... especially if it is locked down and can't move.

Unless it is set up wrong, I'd trust it.

 

[huntsd]

This is just plumb perplexing.

Did you try scoping something that you know is plumb or level?.....a post, pole, building....etc.

Fwiw, I'm not a level guy....especially cheap Chinese vials.

Yes the level works, i tried this at home. I am using this which I think is a good level

Rapid Level - MOUNTAIN TACTICAL®

No longer do you need to waste an hour of your life ensuring your precision rifle shoots level in the field just to lose everything when you bump your level

tikkaperformance.com

 

[Shraggs]

With my rifle and check weld, if I orient it to what I think is vertical and horizontal correctly, I have friends point out my gun is titled right. After putting a bubble on it and using left eye to level it, my reticle looks a exactly like your left pic, put friends confirm it’s not tilted left.

I’ve checked my scope level many times too. So we’re all built different with different guns and optics and if you’re certain the scope is mounted level and the level static in your shop - trust it.

 

[dieselchessy]

What type of bubble level do you have?

Some are just a flexed or bent plastic tube. For obvious reasons a bent tube level won’t work if you tilt/rotate it so the high point of the bend is no longer at the top.

Other bubble levels are an expanded tube, where the center of the tube is a larger radius than the ends. This type will still work when rotated.

 

[riversidejeep]

I've often wondered why scope manufactures don't have internal bubbles built into the scope.

 

[huntsd]

What type of bubble level do you have?

Some are just a flexed or bent plastic tube. For obvious reasons a bent tube level won’t work if you tilt/rotate it so the high point of the bend is no longer at the top.

Other bubble levels are an expanded tube, where the center of the tube is a larger radius than the ends. This type will still work when rotated.

Rapid Level - MOUNTAIN TACTICAL®

No longer do you need to waste an hour of your life ensuring your precision rifle shoots level in the field just to lose everything when you bump your level

tikkaperformance.com

 

[JakeM51]

Don't use a level.....

 

[leclairk]

Level a target and then test it. I’ve never had a reticle that didn’t look level when my bubble level was set correctly

 

[dieselchessy]

Rapid Level - MOUNTAIN TACTICAL®

No longer do you need to waste an hour of your life ensuring your precision rifle shoots level in the field just to lose everything when you bump your level

tikkaperformance.com

Not familiar with that product.

 

[wind gypsy]

Maybe my brain is just broken but when I start shooting positions I’m not used to, there are times I’m canting my head to the stock more than I should be or just not having a horizon to look at… my internal level dosnt work for crap.

Agreed. Took a frank galli class where he went on and on about the level in his brain. Cool for him i guess but what looks level to my brain in broken terrain is often a long ass ways from actually being level. Same thing with archery on hillsides. The bubble in my sight is a requirement or i'd be holding the bow all cock-eyed frequently.

I feel like the illustration on the OP may be misleading? My ASSUMPTION would be that the drawing of the level was drawn solely to show where the bubble and not the angle of the level housing in contrast to the horizontal line on the reticle.

So either A) the level is garbage or mounted wrong or B) OP didn't have to cant reticle to get bubble level, it just felt that way to him, which is why we put a level on a rifle in the first place. As others mentioned, should be easily verified at home by pointing rifle up and down at angles with known plumb references to see if it is working as it should.

 

[Wrench]

Anyone ever ask the tolerance on the levels? My 98's come with a certificate of calibration....and it's damn sensitive. A Chinese vial....not so much.

 

[MattB]

Nobody likely nailed it, like 3rd axis leveling on a bow. This is a consideration as the bubble can be centered when it is horizontal, but is not accurate when pointed up or down because the level tube is not perfectly perpendicular to the bore.

 

[huntsd]

Nobody likely nailed it, like 3rd axis leveling on a bow. This is a consideration as the bubble can be centered when it is horizontal, but is not accurate when pointed up or down because the level tube is not perfectly perpendicular to the bore.

I think this is the issue. I spent a considerable amount of checking at home. Its dead level on flat ground

 

[huntsd]

Agreed. Took a frank galli class where he went on and on about the level in his brain. Cool for him i guess but what looks level to my brain in broken terrain is often a long ass ways from actually being level. Same thing with archery on hillsides. The bubble in my sight is a requirement or i'd be holding the bow all cock-eyed frequently.

I feel like the illustration on the OP may be misleading? My ASSUMPTION would be that the drawing of the level was drawn solely to show where the bubble and not the angle of the level housing in contrast to the horizontal line on the reticle.

So either A) the level is garbage or mounted wrong or B) OP didn't have to cant reticle to get bubble level, it just felt that way to him, which is why we put a level on a rifle in the first place. As others mentioned, should be easily verified at home by pointing rifle up and down at angles with known plumb references to see if it is working as it should.

I definitely had to cant to get level. Thats why it was weird enough that I posted on here.

 

[Tod osier]

I think this is the issue. I spent a considerable amount of checking at home. Its dead level on flat ground

So at home if you angle it downward, you have to lean it to the side?

 

[nobody]

Nobody likely nailed it, like 3rd axis leveling on a bow. This is a consideration as the bubble can be centered when it is horizontal, but is not accurate when pointed up or down because the level tube is not perfectly perpendicular to the bore.

Even nobody can put an intelligent thought into words sometimes. I just hope someone on here doesn't expect another one out of me for like another year, as I've hit my annual quota.

Now back to licking rocks and drooling in the corner by myself... carry on everyone.

 

[dieselchessy]

The third axis idea would seem to hold water given the model level the OP referenced has a pivoting adjustment screw setup to adjust it.
It would seem there is potential for It to be non-perpendicular to the axis of the rifle/scope.