bubble level + reticle/rifle cant

[huntsd]

Took a break from glassing midday yesterday and did some dry fires to pass the time. I was on a steep angle looking down dry firing to a rock about 500 yards away (lying down gun was perfectly still). I had to really cant my reticle to get the bubble level. I checked my scope when I got home and it was level. Does this seem right??

to illustrate the angle of the angle of the ground I was lying on, If I were to lay a board on the ground, the left side of the board would have had air under it.

Heres a picture of what I was seeing in the field

 

[JohnnyB]

Did you damage your scope? It looks like from the picture on the right that the scope tube has had a catastrophic impact. The scope tube should be uniform and round. If the scope is a Vortex, send it back Immediately.

 

[huntsd]

Did you damage your scope? It looks like from the picture on the right that the scope tube has had a catastrophic impact. The scope tube should be uniform and round. If I the scope is a Vortex, send it back Immediately.

Thats just a bad drawing. Scope is fine thanks for the thought

 

[JohnnyB]

Did you check your bubble level to make sure it didn’t get rotated?

 

[Jimbee]

Did you have both shoes on?

 

[BRTreedogs]

Appears to me your level is off

 

[huntsman22]

get rid of the POS.....

 

[TNKnoxville]

Try lining up the reticle with a plumb bob line, straight vertical door jam, etc. and see what the bubble looks like. I have a level kit and align the scope to the barrel then the level to the scope. If the top of the scope is not flat it will be off. I then check against a line and adjust. I then shoot and adjust to point of impact. This has worked for me on shots out to 550 yards! Oh or maybe your scope isn't round.....lol.

 

[huntsd]

Try lining up the reticle with a plumb bob line, straight vertical door jam, etc. and see what the bubble looks like. I have a level kit and align the scope to the barrel then the level to the scope. If the top of the scope is not flat it will be off. I then check against a line and adjust. I then shoot and adjust to point of impact. This has worked for me on shots out to 550 yards! Oh or maybe your scope isn't round.....lol.

Thanks the weird part is my scope is level with the bubble! I checked when I got home

 

[huntsd]

I guess the question is should the reticle ever appear canted like that?

 

[nobody]

Oof, lots to unpack here...

Bottom line, "spirit levels" (fluid filled vial with a bubble of air inside) are designed to be operated only when tilted left and right when the rifle is left essentially level. Introduce any tilt fore and aft and it becomes less and less accurate. In short, if you were indeed aiming/shooting with as steep of a downhill angle as it sounds like you were, then you weren't necessarily tilting the scope sideways, you were rotating it around the Y axis.

Picture this. You hanG your rifle muzzle down and are able to somehow shoulder it from above. You could turn your rifle upside down relative to your face, but as long as the bubble level is still level relative to the core of the earth/the force of gravity, it will always read level, even if it's upside down relative to your eye. The more your rifle is tilted uphill or downhill, the less accurate a spirit level is.

My guess is you were leaned further downhill than you realized and you were more rotating the rifle than you were tilting it relative to the force of gravity. In order to get a truly accurate "leveling system," you would need to switch to an electronic level like the one from MDT, but that's spendy.

In short, there's nothing necessarily wrong with your setup, you're just seeing the shortcoming of a spirit level.

 

[huntsd]

Oof, lots to unpack here...

Bottom line, "spirit levels" (fluid filled vial with a bubble of air inside) are designed to be operated only when tilted left and right when the rifle is left essentially level. Introduce any tilt fore and aft and it becomes less and less accurate. In short, if you were indeed aiming/shooting with as steep of a downhill angle as it sounds like you were, then you weren't necessarily tilting the scope sideways, you were rotating it around the Y axis.

Picture this. You hanG your rifle muzzle down and are able to somehow shoulder it from above. You could turn your rifle upside down relative to your face, but as long as the bubble level is still level relative to the core of the earth/the force of gravity, it will always read level, even if it's upside down relative to your eye. The more your rifle is tilted uphill or downhill, the less accurate a spirit level is.

My guess is you were leaned further downhill than you realized and you were more rotating the rifle than you were tilting it relative to the force of gravity. In order to get a truly accurate "leveling system," you would need to switch to an electronic level like the one from MDT, but that's spendy.

In short, there's nothing necessarily wrong with your setup, you're just seeing the shortcoming of a spirit level.

Interesting thanks! Yes I was leaning forward downhill. What would you say to trust in this situation my left picture (level bubble) or right picture (level reticle)?

 

[BjornF16]

repeat the depression angle at home.

 

[nobody]

Interesting thanks! Yes I was leaning forward downhill. What would you say to trust in this situation my left picture (level bubble) or right picture (level reticle)?

That is a question only you can answer, because it all depends on your shooting abilities and how much you've practiced. At the end of the day, a spirit level is just another data point to reference, but it's not the "end all be all" as far as shooting is concerned. Every rifle I own has one, they're a small weight penalty but they are good to have there. The more you practice the better you'll get at leveling your reticle out naturally, so the trust would depend on how practiced up you are.

 

[Lawnboi]

Maybe my brain is just broken but when I start shooting positions I’m not used to, there are times I’m canting my head to the stock more than I should be or just not having a horizon to look at… my internal level dosnt work for crap.

I have gone to adding checking my level every shot knot my shot process, specifically for rifle matches. I’m always finding I need to make minor adjustments. I’m going to carry this over to my hunting guns, it’s easy and is another reminder to have both eyes open for me.

 

[long hunter]

All my hunting rifles have levels on them, as stated they are a quick refrence point, I find myself using them mostly for target practice off a bench more than actually shooting at a animal, as you shoot a lot it will become a natural reflex to auto level the sight picture, and in my case the external level becomes less prevelent, I would say the level perhaps moved due to becoming loose a bit.

 

[Formidilosus]

Despite popularity of some relatively well known people claiming otherwise, my experience is that almost 100% of people are widely off of what they think is level in broken mountainous terrain. They will argue until they are blue in the face that “the level must be wrong”

 

[mt100gr.]

^^^THIS!! If you know your bubble is level to the horizontal in a controlled environment, you have to trust it in broken country. Sometimes it seems really wacky. I've laid in behind a rifle across a side hill and what was actually level to the world, looked absolutely crazy to my eye, my balance, and my brain!

 

[prm]

Is it possible the level is not exactly perpendicular to the scope? Try it looking up the same amount you were looking down and see if it reverses.

 

[Lawnboi]

If it’s a 3rd axis problem you can easily recreate it at home.