Broken Points System Rambling

[Mojave]

First off I am not on here to cry because I am not getting tags. I am currently a resident of New Mexico, but I live in Europe. I am 10-15 years deep in points programs throughout the west depending on the state.

Here is my suggestion, doesn't really matter the state. Thinking of Wyoming and Colorado.

1. All current points programs go through a 10 year transition.
Maintain preference point draws where the person with the most points gets the tag.
in 5 years move from preference points to bonus points.
Maintain random tags with no preference points.
a. Until 2030 we have a 70% preference point draw and a 30% non-preference random no point draw.
b. In 2030 we go to a 50% bonus point draw and 50% random non-preference point draw. Bonus points draw first and then random.

Key points.
1. We keep random no bonus draw to allow for anyone to draw a tag at any point. Allowing more opportunities for those that are new to hunting for deer, elk and antelope.
2. We move to a bonus point draw knowing that point saturation (creep) has over powered the preference point system.
3. I think some level of opportunity must exist for kids. 10-20% of all non-wilderness elk, deer and antelope tags set aside for anyone 12-17. These will be the first pool drawn and anything not drawn will go into the bonus point draw and then into the rand no point draw.
4. No bighorn, goat, moose, grizzly, oryx, ibex, bison whatever high demand trophy tags would be available for kids. As these are regularly party hunted by dads who can't let the tag not be filled.
5. Residents and non-residents must have at least 5 years of hunting licenses in that state to draw a high demand trophy tag species.

 

[wildwilderness]

Well, Colorado will change in 2028

 

[wytx]

Maybe require residents to live in the state of their residency for at least 9 months out of the year to qualify.
Why do kids need guaranteed tags?
Many will choose not to hunt later in life. Give them a cheaper license option but no to guaranteed licenses.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

Why do kids need guaranteed tags?

Yes, holy crap this infuriates me when a NR youth gets preference in the draw over residents. Parents are living vicariously through their kids to hunt trophy units out west every year.

Hunt your own state and if you draw a tag in the next state over, cool. You don't need a special youth only draw system that screws the residents. Thanks Colorado.

 

[UpNorth89]

Yes, holy crap this infuriates me when a NR youth gets preference in the draw over residents. Parents are living vicariously through their kids to hunt trophy units out west every year.

Hunt your own state and if you draw a tag in the next state over, cool. You don't need a special youth only draw system that screws the residents. Thanks Colorado.

I also dislike that some state allow parents to buy their kids points before they're even legal hunting age.

 

[Thehillbillee]

I’m not for kids tags either, other than giving them an anterless or other low-value tag and the opportunity to maybe kick off their season in advance of everyone else. I know that when I shot my first deer, a doe, at 12 I was thrilled. I don’t see a need to give them a highly valued tag to “hook” them. I believe folks should earn those, so to speak.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I don’t see a need to give them a highly valued tag to “hook” them. I believe folks should earn those, so to speak.

Some random clowns who don't give two shits about hunting, ethics or anything other than bragging to their buddies get premium tags every year. They really "earned" em over some kid who may become a lifetime hunter and pass down the tradition to their own children.

Tags are drawn based on the state system in place, there's no way to "earn" a tag regardless of age.

 

[Thehillbillee]

Some random clowns who don't give two shits about hunting, ethics or anything other than bragging to their buddies get premium tags every year. They really "earned" em over some kid who may become a lifetime hunter and pass down the tradition to their own children.

Tags are drawn based on the state system in place, there's no way to "earn" a tag regardless of age.

They are “earned” through years of applying unsuccessfully for most hunters. During those years you hunt the non trophy areas, or the highly pressured areas, or you settle for a cow/doe, or nothing at all. Then when you finally get the good tag, you’ll appreciate it. No random clown draws coveted tags every year, year after year.

If it takes a coveted tag to get a kid to hunt, then they’re not going to be a lifetime hunter once they figure out they aren’t getting that special treatment every year for the rest of their life.

 

[gonhunting247]

I have a lot of points in a lot of states, but it seems like it is a never ending battle. If it was me I think I'd phase out point systems by making tags 60/40 points/random with point draw first and those not drawn go back in the random round. With no more points being accrued by anyone. When all the points are finally gone from the systems they are all completely random.
I know this probably would never happen because of the point fee revenue loss, but it would be a way to let the guys that invested use their points to some advantage, but still give everyone a shot. Those percentages are just an example; it could be whatever was decided is best.
Who knows if it is really a good idea , but it seems like when tags are taking more than a lifetime to draw maybe something needs to happen, while not just totally ignoring the fact that a lot of folks have invested heavily for many years in points purchasing!
I guess either way I'll just adjust with the times; I've been lucky to have had a ton of great hunts and opportunities

 

[gonhunting247]

I like the idea of giving kids opportunity and some hunt dates that help with that, but I've never thought giving them opportunities at trophy type tags creates lifelong hunters any different than the rest.

 

[WeiserBucks]

No random clown draws coveted tags every year, year after year.

Some random jackwagon will draw a killer tag, not the same jackwagon drawing every year.

They are “earned” through years of applying unsuccessfully for most hunters.

Being unsuccessful doesn't earn anything. Being unsuccessful is a participation trophy for point systems.

If it takes a coveted tag to get a kid to hunt, then they’re not going to be a lifetime hunter once they figure out they aren’t getting that special treatment every year for the rest of their life.

It doesn't take a premium tag to get a kid to hunt. There is no special treatment, a tag is a piece of paper not a fully guided hunt on 100k acres of private property. Adults draw the best tags in the country and shoot dinks regularly, they really "earned" it.

 

[Thehillbillee]

Parents are living vicariously through their kids to hunt trophy units out west every year.

Agree. And through their non-hunting wives and mothers. And not just out west.

 

[Thehillbillee]

5. Residents and non-residents must have at least 5 years of hunting licenses in that state to draw a high demand trophy tag species.

Agree. Maybe need to adjust the specific criteria for qualifying, but at least it helps reduce the pool to those hunters that really appreciate those opportunities.

 

[WeiserBucks]

If you guys who want to eliminate kids from the drawing are being perfectly honest, you're selfish and want the tag for yourself. The more people who get eliminated from the drawing the better your odds are.

That's exactly how point systems work and that's why some people love them. I'm also selfish and I want to draw a tag too, but I'm a freedom loving American and I appreciate a random draw for that reason.

 

[Thehillbillee]

If you guys who want to eliminate kids from the drawing are being perfectly honest, you're selfish and want the tag for yourself.

I don’t think anyone’s talking about eliminating kids from the drawings. We’re talking about eliminating the special treatment they get. I’m totally fine with kids of hunting age having their name in the hat with mine and if they get lucky and draw that’s great!

 

[WeiserBucks]

I don’t think anyone’s talking about eliminating kids from the drawings. We’re talking about eliminating the special treatment they get. I’m totally fine with kids of hunting age having their name in the hat with mine and if they get lucky and draw that’s great!

Thank you for the clarification. I agree that kids shouldn't typically have their own allotment of premium tags but I'd hate to see them eliminated from the drawing.

 

[deltadukman]

If you guys who want to eliminate kids from the drawing are being perfectly honest, you're selfish and want the tag for yourself. The more people who get eliminated from the drawing the better your odds are.

That's exactly how point systems work and that's why some people love them. I'm also selfish and I want to draw a tag too, but I'm a freedom loving American and I appreciate a random draw for that reason.

^^^^^^This.

I am glad I live in a state where I can buy a license and just go hunt. No BS. I think I can kill 3 bucks and damn near unlimited does. Hogs, turkeys, small game, etc with an over the counter license. Sure I still put in for some tags out west, but day in and day out myself and my kid can hunt freely from September to the end of January without have to draw or possibly sitting out a year.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Yes, holy crap this infuriates me when a NR youth gets preference in the draw over residents. Parents are living vicariously through their kids to hunt trophy units out west every year.

Hunt your own state and if you draw a tag in the next state over, cool. You don't need a special youth only draw system that screws the residents. Thanks Colorado.

Yep 2nd draw is soooo stupid don’t get me started… I get offering R youth preference, but NR youth. Ummm if you are going out of state to hunt as a kid, I can say with 100% certainty that you definitely have plenty of opportunities and adults to foster your hunting interests.

 

[roadrunner]

They are “earned” through years of applying unsuccessfully for most hunters. During those years you hunt the non trophy areas, or the highly pressured areas, or you settle for a cow/doe, or nothing at all. Then when you finally get the good tag, you’ll appreciate it. No random clown draws coveted tags every year, year after year.

If it takes a coveted tag to get a kid to hunt, then they’re not going to be a lifetime hunter once they figure out they aren’t getting that special treatment every year for the rest of their life.

In a random state like NM, the random guy will always draw a killer tag on the first try. Did he "earn" it? Don't know.

I know people that draw killer tags or difficult to draw tags regularly. I guess they paid their dues by being unsuccessful for decades...

 

[JFK]

Nothing will change with regard to preference points until there is a solution that also keeps the cash rolling in to the game agency. They aren’t just going to move away from points and take the revenue loss.