** BROADHEADS ** Science & Math

[Brendan]

Depending on the time of year, I'd consider flying out...

 

[worx53]

Yes, it's possible, but then they'd hit high at short/medium range. If you tune them dead on for short / medium, they'll be low the longer out you go.

We discussed this earlier, but some people tune this way to have them run a little high to start, and dead on at a longer range, then less drop as you go beyond that.

What I saw was not shooting high at short distances. I also have shot a lot of broadheads at 80 that shot the same or higher than field points. I read an interesting article about slight verticle rest adjustments greatly affecting broadheads vertical impact but not nearly as much as the field point to bring the two closer together at long range. I wish I could find it.
All I'm saying is it's not a given that they impact lower in all cases for sure.

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[5MilesBack]

I read an interesting article about slight verticle rest adjustments greatly affecting broadheads vertical impact but not nearly as much as the field point to bring the two closer together at long range. All I'm saying is it's not a given that they impact lower in all cases for sure.

That's what I was saying earlier. Very small adjustments affect the impact difference between BH's and FP's greater at distance than they do at close range. Just like a horizontal rest adjustment of 1/32" might move FP arrows 6" at 80, but only an inch at 20. That's one reason why I like long range tuning, the adjustments show up very easily.

 

[Brendan]

What I saw was not shooting high at short distances. I also have shot a lot of broadheads at 80 that shot the same or higher than field points. I read an interesting article about slight verticle rest adjustments greatly affecting broadheads vertical impact but not nearly as much as the field point to bring the two closer together at long range. I wish I could find it.
All I'm saying is it's not a given that they impact lower in all cases for sure.

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My opinion is that physics disagrees with you. But that's what this discussion is about and proving it with a shooting machine.

About the only thing I haven't seen discussed here are the Firenock Aerovanes and spinning the arrow fast enough that you create some amount of rotational lift, but those vanes work like crap with broadheads from what I've read. (and, this should create a lateral deviation, not vertical)

 

[Trial153]

I would be in for some arrow and broadhead replacement money if someone was willing to ship their bow that they feel would shoot broadheads and field points to the same POI at 100 yards from a Hooter shooter.

 

[ontarget7]

I think some are confused by groups and same point of impact.

Say I shoot 6 or 7” groups at 80 yards. This is not saying they will impact the same hole at 80 yards. However, I will average the same group size with broadheads. Really not much difference if everything including me is dialed in.

I am also not seeing much of a difference in fps recorded at 80 yards. This is the biggest reason why I feel some are seeing them taper off more.

If flight is not true and clean an arrow with a broadhead will loose energy faster out of the gate. I feel this is the biggest reason why some see bigger difference than others long range when it comes to broadheads.

When the broadhead choice and tune are right you can actually have a bareshaft with a broadhead on it fly really well.



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[nexus]

I would say physics supports that the sum of the system determines the flight of the arrow(s) when only the tip is varied. If the point drag coefficient does not produce a "significant" force relative to the other forces acting on the arrow, the POI differences will be minimized (NOT ABSOLUTE ZERO). These differences may not be discernible from the limitations of the archer. Attached is a little primer on the forces impacting arrow flight. I surmise that this is exactly why we tune bows.

capgo.com

Forsale Lander

www.capgo.com

Wish I could shoot worth a D#@N, I would step up and waste some arrows.

 

[Dos Perros]

I think some are confused by groups and same point of impact.

Say I shoot 6 or 7” groups at 80 yards. This is not saying they will impact the same hole at 80 yards. However, I will average the same group size with broadheads. Really not much difference if everything including me is dialed in.

I am also not seeing much of a difference in fps recorded at 80 yards. This is the biggest reason why I feel some are seeing them taper off more.

If flight is not true and clean an arrow with a broadhead will loose energy faster out of the gate. I feel this is the biggest reason why some see bigger difference than others long range when it comes to broadheads.

When the broadhead choice and tune are right you can actually have a bareshaft with a broadhead on it fly really well.



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Then, wouldn't you expect the 'muzzle' velocities in RB's test to be divergent FP's to BH's? He showed them to be identical.

 

[ontarget7]

Then, wouldn't you expect the 'muzzle' velocities in RB's test to be divergent FP's to BH's? He showed them to be identical.

Up close they will be really close but as a tail right or left, tail high or tail low fight to get back on track you will see a more gradual loss down range


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[Dos Perros]

Up close they will be really close but as a tail right or left, tail high or tail low fight to get back on track you will see a more gradual loss down range


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I’m not so sure. Once the arrow corrects itself it should be just as aerodynamic as a perfectly ejected arrow. The energy is lost in the correction, not bled over the entire trajectory. I’m not sure if the distance to correct, but comparing velocities slightly behind that distance would tell the story.

 

[ontarget7]

I’m not so sure. Once the arrow corrects itself it should be just as aerodynamic as a perfectly ejected arrow. The energy is lost in the correction, not bled over the entire trajectory. I’m not sure if the distance to correct, but comparing velocities slightly behind that distance would tell the story.

Easy to test, you’ll have to try it

Take a bareshaft tuned bow and dial it in long range. Then throw that same bow out of tune and you will find the need to change sight tapes


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[WyoBowhunter21]

Great posts and discussion. Thanks!

 

[WyoBowhunter21]

So I read every comment here and it got me thinking. Again great posts here. Long range shooting, whether archery or rifle has its complexities. For rifle, its not as complex as an archery setup. With a rifle setup you sight in your rifle using the exact bullet you will shoot with. For archery, you sight in using the same grain point, same arrow but the only thing the same after you put on a broad head is the arrow. The drag coefficient will be different once that broad head is on. I do agree with what was mentioned above regarding drag and distance and if one person has a right tear/left tear the energy lost with the correction will show up as a loss of energy at any distance after the correction. This is where it got me thinking. My typical archery shot is between 40-60 for deer, 10-60 for elk, and antelope I keep averaging around 70. Due to this I wouldn’t think that 50 and under you will see much difference, or shouldn’t, as long as your bow is tuned and you are shooting perfect form. Beyond 50 you may see some differences. For those that use a slider with sight tape do you use a different tape once you throw a broad head on? In the heat of the moment it would be hard for me to “think”, “okay, I have a broad head, shot is at 57 yards, shoot low/high”. I am considering using another sight tape over my current one just for broad heads. Thoughts?


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[RosinBag]

Many do exactly what you are saying. They know where the separation starts and will just add a little yardage as needed. Maybe 1 yard in the 70’s and 2 in the 80’s just depending on your set up.

 

[bowtech3dhunter]

I just make a new tape. Which is actually the only tape I use. During the off season I just print out my numbers but don’t actually install a tape on my sight.


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[hayesplow]

Thats some really accurate calculation OP got there.

 

[5MilesBack]

I am considering using another sight tape over my current one just for broad heads. Thoughts?

I can't help with the sight tapes, as I use a fixed 7-pin sight, so 20-80 yards. I tune my BH's to my FP's at 60 yards and I've never done anything special to shoot further than that with BH's. I shoot out to 90 in elk camp with my practice fixed blades and obviously aim higher for 90 with my 80 yard pin. I set my Rinoblock on a camp chair and aim for the middle out to 80, and it's good. The longest shot I've ever had to take (chosen to take) at an elk or deer was 71 yards and that arrow hit center mass vertically right where I wanted it. Everything at 60 and under has been spot on, on ranged shots.

 

[ontarget7]

So I read every comment here and it got me thinking. Again great posts here. Long range shooting, whether archery or rifle has its complexities. For rifle, its not as complex as an archery setup. With a rifle setup you sight in your rifle using the exact bullet you will shoot with. For archery, you sight in using the same grain point, same arrow but the only thing the same after you put on a broad head is the arrow. The drag coefficient will be different once that broad head is on. I do agree with what was mentioned above regarding drag and distance and if one person has a right tear/left tear the energy lost with the correction will show up as a loss of energy at any distance after the correction. This is where it got me thinking. My typical archery shot is between 40-60 for deer, 10-60 for elk, and antelope I keep averaging around 70. Due to this I wouldn’t think that 50 and under you will see much difference, or shouldn’t, as long as your bow is tuned and you are shooting perfect form. Beyond 50 you may see some differences. For those that use a slider with sight tape do you use a different tape once you throw a broad head on? In the heat of the moment it would be hard for me to “think”, “okay, I have a broad head, shot is at 57 yards, shoot low/high”. I am considering using another sight tape over my current one just for broad heads. Thoughts?


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Same sight tape for my broadheads to fieldpoint.




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[Capra]

I have shot the same basic arrow and ballistics for 15 years plus. 420-grain arrow traveling at 270 fps. It is the sweet spot for me. The only thing that has changed is that at 26" used to have to shoot 80 lbs and now I can shoot less due to the efficiency of our modern bows.

It is almost a running joke with a couple of buddies that broadheads are " 3 inches low at 100 "

The only explanation is drag. You do not need a shooting machine to prove this, simply shoot two arrows with different fletchings. The larger the fletching the lower the impact. Every time. The same thing is occurring when you introduce a broadhead into the mix.

Starting 1 month before the season I shoot broadheads exclusively and not one year have my marks remained the same.

 

[worx53]

Agreed on the shooting machine..if you shoot enough groups there is an obvious result when you average the impacts to eliminate the human error factor . The "low" not always so...depends on the heads and bow setup in my experience.

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