** BROADHEADS ** Science & Math

[Brendan]

I spend more time playing with timing and stabilizers to get the pin to float as slow and as little as possible.

Wanted to come back to this comment as I think this is an area where I know I have opportunity, and I bet others do too. I think this would be a great thread on it's own if you have a good system...

I've played around with different holding weights, gone as low as 10-12lbs, as high as 22lbs, and varied front/rear/side bars but haven't figured out what works best yet.

 

[RosinBag]

I am wondering if there is a point where the additional drop with broadheads at range is compensated for with air densities at elevation?

IOW if one's pins sighted for field points at X elevation (I suppose a certain velocity would be needed as well) would be accurate with broadheads at Y elevation because the air resistance is less and ends up at a zero sum. Basically more surface area BH but thinner air = less surface area FP and denser air.

Yes, at some point it would work in your theory.

I sight in at sea level for the most part and have shot at a trailhead at 8500’. At 60 yards my BH’s were about 1-2” high. I just told myself if I shoot over 60, I will just take a yard off of what the rangefinder says.

I overthink at times and sometimes try not to overthink. I try to get my hunting bow to shoot like my target bows. I also know that shooting an animal is not as specific as shooting targets. I shoot BH tournaments but they are at animals with no dots, I just like to know my bow is dialed in. That way if I miss, I know it’s the idiot behind it that is to blame.

 

[RosinBag]

Wanted to come back to this comment as I think this is an area where I know I have opportunity, and I bet others do too. I think this would be a great thread on it's own if you have a good system...

I've played around with different holding weights, gone as low as 10-12lbs, as high as 22lbs, and varied front/rear/side bars but haven't figured out what works best yet.

Everything I have learned about stabilization I have done so from top level pros.

I think David Houser just did a you tube video on stabilizer and it was brief, but on point.

One of the best out there with technical info on stabilization is Greg Poole from AAE/Bow Junky. Greg and I don’t always get along so I don’t ask him much on the topic, but I would consider him an expert in the area.

I will start a new thread with the basic idea and tips on it. Ultimately it would just be a start as bow set up, draw length, holding weight and style of shot you execute are all significant factors. Trial and error.

 

[sndmn11]

Yes, at some point it would work in your theory.

I sight in at sea level for the most part and have shot at a trailhead at 8500’. At 60 yards my BH’s were about 1-2” high. I just told myself if I shoot over 60, I will just take a yard off of what the rangefinder says.

If I am understanding correctly, in your unofficial test, the less dense air more than makes up for the increased air resistance of the BH?

 

[Billinsd]

Sounds like a fun elementary or junior high experiment!!!

Not exactly. Two different surface areas you are comparing. Field points and BH have different aspects, and surface areas.

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Right, about the fp and bh are very different aerodynamically. If the bhs and fps have the same point of impact at sea level, the same pair should have same point of impact at 10,000. If the point of impact changed between the two from sea level to 10,000, it should be hardly noticable.

 

[chasewild]

It makes a difference. It makes a difference in my opinion. But it’s not a huge difference. I’ve tested it for my setup when I’m at 11,000 feet my arrow hits a few inches different at 70-80 yards than it does at 5,000 feet.

I think for the most part it’s not enough of a difference for the average guy to make a difference. The super accurate guys can tell a difference thou.

But it could definitely make a big difference I think for a guy coming from sea level and hunting high elevation.

Something to think about.

So what you're saying is that you're not average?

 

[RosinBag]

If I am understanding correctly, in your unofficial test, the less dense air more than makes up for the increased air resistance of the BH?

No, not across the board. Depending on the amount it would work at a specific elevation change. Say it’s 6000’ of difference than your BH May impact the same as your FP at sea level. You would have to figure out what the difference would be for your particular set up. I would think around 6-8k would make up the difference at say 60-70 yards, but it is more dependant on how your bow is set up.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've played around with different holding weights, gone as low as 10-12lbs, as high as 22lbs, and varied front/rear/side bars but haven't figured out what works best yet.

I have a 2007 Bowtech Commander. When that bow was new, it held like no other bow I've ever shot. I'd come to full draw, put my 60 yard pin on the bullseye, and it would just sit there.....wouldn't move at all, and that was with a little 5" rubber Doinker for a stabilizer. I tried longer and heavier stabilizers and it wouldn't hold as well. It was absolutely easy to bust arrows and ruin fletching at 60 yards. But then one of the limbs splintered. I got new limbs and put them on, and it's never been the same since. I really wish I had marked and measured every single thing I had on that bow from every direction.

I do know that nocking point location makes a big difference, as well as cam timing, draw length, and holding weight. And I'm sure on most bows, stabilizer length, weight, and location makes a difference. I've been chasing that kind of hold on every bow since. Some have gotten closer to that, but still nowhere near that solid.

 

[sndmn11]

No, not across the board. Depending on the amount it would work at a specific elevation change. Say it’s 6000’ of difference than your BH May impact the same as your FP at sea level. You would have to figure out what the difference would be for your particular set up. I would think around 6-8k would make up the difference at say 60-70 yards, but it is more dependant on how your bow is set up.

I just meant in your one example/test. I understand there are a silly amount of variables at play.

I was surprised by that and had initially thought that, generally speaking, the broadhead would have a hard time catching up to the field point.

 

[5MilesBack]

I have some a/c/c laying around that I'm thinking I'll play with a little. Maybe they will change my mind. But I'm not expecting it.

Next to my Trophy Ridge Crush 300's, the ACC's are the most consistent spec'd arrows I've tried and tested.

 

[RosinBag]

ACC’s are great arrow, but I found they were one and done arrows. Fairly fragile.

I even have some of the ACC Pro Hunters laying around, but you can’t even get them anymore and I don’t have enough to shoot.

 

[Billy Goat]

Next to my Trophy Ridge Crush 300's, the ACC's are the most consistent spec'd arrows I've tried and tested.

ACC’s are great arrow, but I found they were one and done arrows. Fairly fragile.

I even have some of the ACC Pro Hunters laying around, but you can’t even get them anymore and I don’t have enough to shoot.

I'm worried about the durability. Found that out about fmj's.

Shame the trophy ridge arrows are no more. One of the better carbon arrows I have seen on a spine tester, consistent.

 

[Trial153]

I have about 6 dozen 390 prohunter shafts and about two dozen cut and inserted with brass H inserts. They are the best 400 spine shaft I ever used.

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[RosinBag]

I have about 6 dozen 390 prohunter shafts and about two dozen cut and inserted with brass H inserts. They are the best 400 spine shaft I ever used.

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That’s a small pile of gold!!!

 

[Trial153]

That’s a small pile of gold!!!

Perfect for my 60 pound set ups...just under 500 grains and no culls

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[5MilesBack]

Shame the trophy ridge arrows are no more. One of the better carbon arrows I have seen on a spine tester, consistent.

Mine are 11 years old and have been shot to death and they still have fantastic specs and tolerances on the RAM tester. They're also the toughest arrow I've ever shot. I stopped shooting the ACC 3-71's when I got these in 2008. Yes, the ACC's are more fragile.

 

[S.Clancy]

Drag cannot be fixed, since it's related to velocity, which changes. Do you mean using heavier arrows with the same broadhead. Would the heavier arrows have the same outside diameter? Intuitively, the heavier the arrow the less affected by drag it should be. Think of a big dually with a car topper on it versus the same car topper on a real small car. Sounds like you'd like quantified tests?

I meant same size arrow, heavier weight. I'm curious as to the drop of a heavier arrow broadhead vs fp. Comparing heavy vs light arrows has been done ad nauseam

 

[Jeff Martin]

I have about 6 dozen 390 prohunter shafts and about two dozen cut and inserted with brass H inserts. They are the best 400 spine shaft I ever used.

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I still have 3 dozen of the ACC Super Slim which is the original ACC Heavy arrow. - both are the best arrows Easton has ever made....IMHO

 

[Trial153]

I still have 3 dozen of the ACC Super Slim which is the original ACC Heavy arrow. - both are the best arrows Easton has ever made....IMHO

Agree

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[ontarget7]

Lots of variables no doubt.

However, the right tune, the right amount of helical and fletching combo, with the right broadheads and it’s definitely possible to get them grouping together out to 100 yards with fieldpoints.

Can’t even remember the last time I’ve broadhead tuned any of my bows. Perfect bareshaft flight with entry matching fletched and I’m golden with broadheads.


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