Broadhead vs bareshaft tuning

[CMF]

Which adjustments and in which order do you guys make when BH tuning?

Do any of you find at longer distances(50/60+) you can't close the gap between BH and FP? If so, what distance of separation would you call close enough and then adjust sights to BH?

With my ole DXT, I could never get the groups closer than 3-4inches at 50.
I got within a few inches last year at 60 with my V3X but ended up adjusting my sights as I ran out of time.

 

[10ringer]

Keep with your bare shaft tuning method to get your bow initially set up. Fletch your arrows, nock tune/group tune arrows. Once you have your best arrows identified, move on to broadhead tuning. I think if you jump right to this step you run the risk of making adjustments on your bow when it was really the arrow that needed adjustments. You can nock rotate and move broadheads from one arrow to the next and get noticeable differences.

CMF-

Yes, you can get broadheads and field points touching together at 60 yards if you’re within it inch or two, you’re on the money. I wouldn’t accept anything outside of that. If I were to miss or put a bad hit on an animal, I want to know it’s me and not the equipment. I have a buddy who put a bad hit on a 370+ inch bull last year that still beats himself up today for not spending more time tuning his equipment. We checked and his field points were 3-4 inches high right of his broadheads at 40yds.

 

[Tx_archer_6]

Which adjustments and in which order do you guys make when BH tuning?

Do any of you find at longer distances(50/60+) you can't close the gap between BH and FP? If so, what distance of separation would you call close enough and then adjust sights to BH?

With my ole DXT, I could never get the groups closer than 3-4inches at 50.
I got within a few inches last year at 60 with my V3X but ended up adjusting my sights as I ran out of time.

Mechanicals, I rarely have any issues but with fixed blades yes I will often have to make adjustments to get BH and FT to hit together at 40 and beyond. If BH are hitting left that means you have a nock right tear at some point in flight. Move rest left, shim cams to the right, or if you have a split yoke, add a half twist at a time to your right cable. The opposite applies if your BHs are hitting right of FT.

If BH is hitting high of FT then at some point you have a nock low tear. Move your rest down.

After an adjustment is made you may want to move your sight. Personally I don’t move my sight and just keep aiming at what I want to hit and all I care about is my group. Once BHs and FTs are grouping, then I move my sight.

A little bit goes a long way with these adjustments. Practice shooting BHs like you’re actually hunting (elevate your heart rate, wear your hunting clothes, bino harness, pack, etc). I’ve never been a gloves guy but if you wear gloves, even that can make a difference in your POI with BHs. This is especially true with fixed blades.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck and happy hunting!

 

[CMF]

CMF-
Yes, you can get broadheads and field points touching together at 60 yards if you’re within it inch or two, you’re on the money. I wouldn’t accept anything outside of that. If I were to miss or put a bad hit on an animal, I want to know it’s me and not the equipment. I have a buddy who put a bad hit on a 370+ inch bull last year that still beats himself up today for not spending more time tuning his equipment. We checked and his field points were 3-4 inches high right of his broadheads at 40yds.

Yea, I don't know what the deal with the dxt was, I moved rest both ways in and out, tried everything over a couple years and never could get them perfect. even different point weights in case of spine issue. I talked to a guy at the bow shop, and he was like "oh that's good enough, I wouldn't worry about it" but it always drove me nuts. My groups were good, and I would dial my sights with the BH once it was time to hunt tho.
I'm going to start earlier this year with broadheads, probably this week, cause I plan to go for bear later this month or early next.

 

[CMF]

Mechanicals, I rarely have any issues but with fixed blades yes I will often have to make adjustments to get BH and FT to hit together at 40 and beyond. If BH are hitting left that means you have a nock right tear at some point in flight. Move rest left, shim cams to the right, or if you have a split yoke, add a half twist at a time to your right cable. The opposite applies if your BHs are hitting right of FT.

If BH is hitting high of FT then at some point you have a nock low tear. Move your rest down.

After an adjustment is made you may want to move your sight. Personally I don’t move my sight and just keep aiming at what I want to hit and all I care about is my group. Once BHs and FTs are grouping, then I move my sight.

A little bit goes a long way with these adjustments. Practice shooting BHs like you’re actually hunting (elevate your heart rate, wear your hunting clothes, bino harness, pack, etc). I’ve never been a gloves guy but if you wear gloves, even that can make a difference in your POI with BHs. This is especially true with fixed blades.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck and happy hunting!

Yea, I'm talking fixed blades. I have some Raptor trick mechanicals that I keep in my quiver, but I want to be shooting 2 blade fixed. I've been using Magnus killer bees, I'd like to go to Iron Will.

So for up and down, do you always move the rest or do you ever move nock point? I think the guide I was following had me usually moving nock point. If there are times to do one over the other, how do you know which?
As far the little adjustments going a long way, I think I'll be better off now with the rest I have on my V3X that has the micro adjustments. On my DXT, I just had scribe marks and had to wing it.

 

[Tx_archer_6]

Yea, I'm talking fixed blades. I have some Raptor trick mechanicals that I keep in my quiver, but I want to be shooting 2 blade fixed. I've been using Magnus killer bees, I'd like to go to Iron Will.

So for up and down, do you always move the rest or do you ever move nock point? I think the guide I was following had me usually moving nock point. If there are times to do one over the other, how do you know which?
As far the little adjustments going a long way, I think I'll be better off now with the rest I have on my V3X that has the micro adjustments. On my DXT, I just had scribe marks and had to wing it.

The micro adjust will definitely serve you well!
The only time I will move nocking point is during the initial setup and paper tune process. By the time I go to shoot BHs I am happy with nocking point and only adjust my rest up and down.

I would not recommend moving your nocking point during the BH turning phase as an adjustment will likely be too “macro”. Not to mention much more time consuming depending on if you’re cutting off your d-loop and tying a new one every time, tying new nock sets, etc. Sometimes even tying on new nock sets and a new d-loop can change things, even if you think you put them in the same spot :/

Change anything, change everything!

 

[PurpleDriver]

I’m with TXarcher. When I’m BH tuning it is 1/16” or less rest adjustments. When I’m at 40yd’s and over, 1/32” is a big adjustment. I use the gold tip chart. I adjust to FP and BH within 2”. 2” group at 50yds is about my best. I practice passionate with BH out to my tapes max distance to verify, but don’t tune past 50 due to my own limits.

 

[Tx_archer_6]

I’m with TXarcher. When I’m BH tuning it is 1/16” or less rest adjustments. When I’m at 40yd’s and over, 1/32” is a big adjustment. I use the gold tip chart. I adjust to FP and BH within 2”. 2” group at 50yds is about my best. I practice passionate with BH out to my tapes max distance to verify, but don’t tune past 50 due to my own limits.

I agree with this. Past about 50 things can get really finicky with fixed blades.

 

[dirtshooter]

Without starting a new thread, my buddy is really pushing me to bareshaft tune. My broadheads are shooting good groups but when I fling a bareshaft it is flying way left.

Now should I bother bareshaft tuning if my broadheads are nailing tight groups? I don't mind wearing out my target early.
I attempted to move my rest left to adjust the bareshaft and it only made the bareshaft worse. I have read that a right hand shooter having a bareshaft hit way left could be indicative of too stiff of spine.

I'm shooting an older bowtech, 59-60lbs, with Goldtip Hunter XTs 340 spine, 50gr inserts and 100gr fieldpoints.

Do I bother with bareshaft? Change arrows? Or just keep shooting my broadheads into good groups and go hunting?

 

[cjdewese]

Without starting a new thread, my buddy is really pushing me to bareshaft tune. My broadheads are shooting good groups but when I fling a bareshaft it is flying way left.

Now should I bother bareshaft tuning if my broadheads are nailing tight groups? I don't mind wearing out my target early.
I attempted to move my rest left to adjust the bareshaft and it only made the bareshaft worse. I have read that a right hand shooter having a bareshaft hit way left could be indicative of too stiff of spine.

I'm shooting an older bowtech, 59-60lbs, with Goldtip Hunter XTs 340 spine, 50gr inserts and 100gr fieldpoints.

Do I bother with bareshaft? Change arrows? Or just keep shooting my broadheads into good groups and go hunting?

Shoot a field point with your broadheads. If they are hitting the same spot you should be good. If your FP is hitting differently than you BH then your bow is out of tune. You CAN move your rest to where your BH hits but you are losing out on penetration and accuracy without fully tuning your bow.

 

[PurpleDriver]

Exactly what cj said. If FP and BH hit same spot, that is the end goal. Paper and BS tune are simply to get to that goal.

 

[CobraChicken]

I do the same thing. You'll have to broadhead tune anyways regardless of your paper tuning.

I've stopped paper tuning with fletches as well.

Bareshaft bullet hole. Same grouping at 20 with fletched shaft (bareshaft hits target straight)

Let them fly with broadheads and finish out. Never had issues in the last year or so.

Theory is if my bareshaft can fly perfect next to my fletched, I don't care what the vanes do.

Context, I run a stiffer shaft and load the front up for what it's worth

 

[mod-it]

I like to go straight to bare shaft tuning, shooting them against a fletched arrow into a layered target. I look to get them hitting the same spot and bare at the same angle as fletched to 20 yards. I start close, around 5-6 yards, then move to 10 yards, then go to 20 yards. I rarely shoot paper. So far I've never had fixed BH not shoot to same spot at 20 also once I get bare and fletched doing so. I have had different fletching effect this, but never when using the exact same arrows and components. After this I sight in simply using field points, my hunting setup gets sighted in to 60 yards. Then I'll shoot a few fixed BH's at each distance to verify they hit the same spot. Once in a while, since I only tune bare to 20 yards, I will end up having to make a very small adjustment once I start shooting fixed BH at distances beyond 40.
I prefer bare tuning because it is so easy on the target. But there should be no reason you couldn't skip bare and just go straight to tuning with fixed BH if you prefer.

 

[TSAMP]

Question for you tuning gurus. I have a mathews phase 4 that recently got paper tuned due to significant cam lean and a right tear. Got it shooting what appeared bullet holes (fletched arrow) with a jumbo shim on one side. Shot broadheads and fp at 30 and had to micro adjust rest about 5 clicks to get that sorted and lined up(5 " right). It seemed rather sensitive and groupings were not the best with the BH. (Maybe just me) So I snagged a bare shaft and it was hitting right about a foot at 30. It was windy so I called it quits.

Now im shooting at 15yds at my place and can get BS to hit dead on but it is angled about 15 deg adjacent to the target.

I suspect it's my d loop being a tad short and my thumb release twists to get to my anchor influencing this.

I'm also nearly underspined. 340 fmj @28.5" on a 29" 70lb bow. 100 gr head. ( shot these same arrows last 5 years on another bow)


I dont love the engage grip and also find myself having to really think about hand placement more than ever.

So does this sound like a form issue? I'm thinking so, but I also thought this thing would be more forgiving being a longer ATA compared to my old 30".

 

[Luked]

I just go right to BH tuning for me.
I have and old Reinhart 18-1 that I keep just to shoot BH in. Its lasted me quite a few years but I know 100% where my BH hit, and it gives me confidence in my shots.
I have BH tuned only for 15 years and never had an issue. My BH hit right where i want out to as far as I can confidently shoot which is all i need them to do.

 

[jmez]

If you want your bow BH tuned, it makes zero difference how you get there.

I shoot bare shafts sometimes for a form check on myself. I don't bareshaft tune.

 

[jmez]

Question for you tuning gurus. I have a mathews phase 4 that recently got paper tuned due to significant cam lean and a right tear. Got it shooting what appeared bullet holes (fletched arrow) with a jumbo shim on one side. Shot broadheads and fp at 30 and had to micro adjust rest about 5 clicks to get that sorted and lined up(5 " right). It seemed rather sensitive and groupings were not the best with the BH. (Maybe just me) So I snagged a bare shaft and it was hitting right about a foot at 30. It was windy so I called it quits.

Now im shooting at 15yds at my place and can get BS to hit dead on but it is angled about 15 deg adjacent to the target.

I suspect it's my d loop being a tad short and my thumb release twists to get to my anchor influencing this.

I'm also nearly underspined. 340 fmj @28.5" on a 29" 70lb bow. 100 gr head. ( shot these same arrows last 5 years on another bow)


I dont love the engage grip and also find myself having to really think about hand placement more than ever.

So does this sound like a form issue? I'm thinking so, but I also thought this thing would be more forgiving being a longer ATA compared to my old 30".

My opinions. You aren't nearly underspined. That is plenty of arrow for your set up.

Very few people are capable of shooting a bareshaft consistently at 30 yards . If you can do that I would recommend you quit your day job and start making a living shooting your bow. You are that good, Levi watch out. A bareshaft shot at 30 yards outside is worthless. A bareshaft shot outside in the wind at any distance is useless. If you are going to shoot them do it inside.

What kind of target are you using? Bareshafts in bags tell you nothing. They move and shift after POI. You need to shoot them into a foam target where the shaft doesn't move.

Unless you have perfectly consistent form you will chase your tail a lot trying to bareshaft tune. If you are going to try it, do it at ten yards, not 30. When you get completely repeatable results at 10 you can move to 20. Bareshafts tell you about form and tune. Zero forgiveness, so which is which? You need to shoot a lot of arrows and alot of groups to see the trends.

Everyone on the internet can shoot MOA groupse out to 100 yards and bareshaft tune at 30 yards. Truth is, the guys that can actually do that make a living shooting a bow.

When I am trying to decide tuning or form/me issue. It is always a me issue until proven otherwise. It it is a consistent and repeatable issue look at the equipment. If it is inconsistently consistent, it is always you.

 

[TSAMP]

My opinions. You aren't nearly underspined. That is plenty of arrow for your set up.

Very few people are capable of shooting a bareshaft consistently at 30 yards . If you can do that I would recommend you quit your day job and start making a living shooting your bow. You are that good, Levi watch out. A bareshaft shot at 30 yards outside is worthless. A bareshaft shot outside in the wind at any distance is useless. If you are going to shoot them do it inside.

What kind of target are you using? Bareshafts in bags tell you nothing. They move and shift after POI. You need to shoot them into a foam target where the shaft doesn't move.

Unless you have perfectly consistent form you will chase your tail a lot trying to bareshaft tune. If you are going to try it, do it at ten yards, not 30. When you get completely repeatable results at 10 you can move to 20. Bareshafts tell you about form and tune. Zero forgiveness, so which is which? You need to shoot a lot of arrows and alot of groups to see the trends.

Everyone on the internet can shoot MOA groupse out to 100 yards and bareshaft tune at 30 yards. Truth is, the guys that can actually do that make a living shooting a bow.

When I am trying to decide tuning or form/me issue. It is always a me issue until proven otherwise. It it is a consistent and repeatable issue look at the equipment. If it is inconsistently consistent, it is always you.

Thanks for the feedback. That was helpful. I have never shot BS before.

It was a bag target, but I'll switch to my foam and likely lengthen the d loop a bit.

 

[ASH556]

While we absolutely should do what we can to ensure our equipment is setup properly to humanely put down an animal, I believe there comes a point of diminishing returns and tail chasing. For me if my fixed blade broadheads, expandable broadheads, and fieldpoints are grouping well at 40yds, I'm good. I don't see where that can happen consistently and something be way out of whack. I will say one of the best investments I've made recently (last season) was an arrow spinner. Spin testing fixed blade broadheads has revealed a lot where previously I'd be chasing a tuning issue.

 

[cjdewese]

Spin testing fixed blade broadheads has revealed a lot where previously I'd be chasing a tuning issue.

I would say that along with marking your arrows somehow works great. I currently have 1 arrow that I saw flying a little funky, checked it and its definitely not spinning straight.