Brainstorm Solutions for the Western "Tag Crisis"

[Pacific_Fork]

Let us all know when you tell your kids, relatives, and friends to stay home.

I have to believe you’re not seriously comparing that to what R3 truly is. You do know what R3 is and the levels that companies and non profits go to recruit more consumers/spenders right?

 

[wapitibob]

You can dislike the message all out want it doesn’t change the fact that it’s correct. Is getting tags easier now compared to 10 years ago….No. Remember decent left over Wyoming antelope buck tags. Those days were pretty cool. How about Wyoming general tag every year or at worst every other.

The “tag crisis” is due to the promotion of western hunting and the manufactured crisis that hunting is a dying hobby over the last 10-15 years.

You didn't answer the question; if you believe we don't need new hunters, did you tell your family and friends to stay home or do they get a special exemption ?

 

[Maverick1]

 

[UpNorth89]

Actually very familiar with 33% draw odds for resident “easy” to draw deer units in CO. I know that NRs get a significant amount of draw tags and scoop up landowner tags at 2k a pop, no questions asked. So the $ value of the market is 2k. That’s the price CPW should charge. It makes zero sense that the cost of a tag is significantly lower than that. It’s not like people can’t hunt their own states. Unless you like in CO and NM and you can’t.

Residents also buy up expensive landowner tags. Maybe resident tags should go for thousands too.

 

[RockAndSage]

Squabbling over dwindling supply is a loser game. We all need to think bigger and expand supply.

#TerraformNevada
#MakeTheGreatBasin1000LakesAgain

 

[Coopsdaddy]

Every time you turn on the tv all you see is news about everyone being broke.
I call bullshit because every time a decent vehicle or home goes up for sale it’s gone quick.Everyone paying too doller for gear and for the these hunts.
When will it end if ever,will it ever be affordable again.
I don’t know a single person that can go or would go on a 20000 moose hunt or 10000 elk hunt.
Cant get tags because of all the bs and point creep.
Interesting to see were we are in 5 years/10 years.

 

[The_Jim]

I find it interesting that the only value guys find in the west is being able to take a dead animal home. I try to hunt out of state every season, but if I don't get a tag my home state provides more opportunity than I have time.

If you don't get a tag you can still enjoy the west. Go camping, fishing, backpacking, off-roading, etc.

 

[wind gypsy]

Actually very familiar with 33% draw odds for resident “easy” to draw deer units in CO. I know that NRs get a significant amount of draw tags and scoop up landowner tags at 2k a pop, no questions asked. So the $ value of the market is 2k. That’s the price CPW should charge. It makes zero sense that the cost of a tag is significantly lower than that. It’s not like people can’t hunt their own states. Unless you like in CO and NM and you can’t.

Colorado has historically been pretty generous to non-residents, it's true. They have been peeling the NR tag allocation back though.

The idea that because a landowner tag brings X market value every draw tag should be priced at that is a bit absurd though. A landowner tag is worth X because it doesn't have to be drawn, it doesn't require years of waiting or planning.. The large part of the reason that a NR is likely to pay more for a land owner tag than a resident is because it's harder for NR to get a tag in the first place.

 

[wind gypsy]

New Mexico NR tags are a fraction of the going rate of landowner tags. Landowner gets $5-10k, but the state only gets <$1k. NM residents can’t afford landowner tags so they all go out of state. That is selling our wildlife for a fraction of their worth and letting landowners pocket the rest.

Whether you like NM quotas is a different conversation.

So should every NR tag should basically be auctioned for top $? Go that way and you'll only have more bigger $ interest non-residents to compete with.

That is a result of the large # of transferrable landowner tags.

 

[Blowdowner]

none of the above. The first step is secure us access to more private land. There's certain public land like national monuments that could be open to archery. Since it would be a special tag, the archers could just access from a non-tourist entry point such as a ranger station or lookout Tower Road.

 

[BuckSmasher]

So should every NR tag should basically be auctioned for top $? Go that way and you'll only have more bigger $ interest non-residents to compete with.

That is a result of the large # of transferrable landowner tags.

I agree that is a bad idea but are you against rising the cost of elk tags to cut into the demand at least some?

 

[wind gypsy]

I agree that is a bad idea but are you against rising the cost of elk tags to cut into the demand at least some?

Yes, depending on how much and what current price is in a given state. NR Elk tag prices have increased significantly. I dont think we should be trying to price middle America out of NR elk hunting to make it easier for the more well off to get tags. There are already options for well heeled to have a level up.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Yes, depending on how much and what current price is in a given state. NR Elk tag prices have increased significantly. I dont think we should be trying to price middle America out of NR elk hunting to make it easier for the more well off to get tags. There are already options for well heeled to have a level up.

I look at it a bit different I think. We haven't gotten to the point where non-resident tags just can't be had but we are heading that way. I am not a big fan of the fact that Idaho 'general' elk tags are on a draw now. I understand fixing the cluster that was the 'queue' but still.

The way I see it, cutting into demand with a somewhat higher price helps joe six pack plan for an elk hunt and actually get a tag. Especially if he actually wants to get an elk. Maybe we haven't gotten there yet. I do remember buying, and have bought, Montana general tags at wal-mart AFTER flying up and about to go on my hunt.

 

[wapitibob]

Yes, depending on how much and what current price is in a given state. NR Elk tag prices have increased significantly. I dont think we should be trying to price middle America out of NR elk hunting to make it easier for the more well off to get tags. There are already options for well heeled to have a level up.

No group more self centered than hunters as shown by their ideas to keep "the other guy" from getting a tag.

 

[el_jefe_pescado]

Yep, I bought the "out of state, big game pilgrimage" idea hook, line and sinker and I have now spent the last decade building points in a couple states with the hope that one day I would draw a few "standout" hunts. That may still happen but in the world of hyper-inflated point creep it seems unlikely that I can draw a hunt that will match my expectations/goals from 10 (or even 5) years ago. It's a frustrating paradigm that is shared by thousands of us.

I have no technical solutions, only a personal epiphany. Moving forward, I plan to maintain points in places where I am already invested but mentally I am writing off out of state hunts as a nothing more than a "cool bonus" to compliment my annual, local hunting activities. Instead, I am focusing all my energy on enjoying fun, repeatable hunts in MT with my friends and family. I am fortunate to live in a place that has great opportunity and have burned up too much mental energy over the years wondering if the grass is actually greener on the other side of the state line.

My 2 cents.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Yep, I bought the "out of state, big game pilgrimage" idea hook, line and sinker and I have now spent the last decade building points in a couple states with the hope that one day I would draw a few "standout" hunts. That may still happen but in the world of hyper-inflated point creep it seems unlikely that I can draw a hunt that will match my expectations/goals from 10 (or even 5) years ago. It's a frustrating paradigm that is shared by thousands of us.

I have no technical solutions, only a personal epiphany. Moving forward, I plan to maintain points in places where I am already invested but mentally I am writing off out of state hunts as a nothing more than a "cool bonus" to compliment my annual, local hunting activities. Instead, I am focusing all my energy on enjoying fun, repeatable hunts in MT with my friends and family. I am fortunate to live in a place that has great opportunity and have burned up too much mental energy over the years wondering if the grass is actually greener on the other side of the state line.

My 2 cents.

Regrettably, ditto.

 

[wind gypsy]

I look at it a bit different I think. We haven't gotten to the point where non-resident tags just can't be had but we are heading that way. I am not a big fan of the fact that Idaho 'general' elk tags are on a draw now. I understand fixing the cluster that was the 'queue' but still.

The way I see it, cutting into demand with a somewhat higher price helps joe six pack plan for an elk hunt and actually get a tag. Especially if he actually wants to get an elk. Maybe we haven't gotten there yet. I do remember buying, and have bought, Montana general tags at wal-mart AFTER flying up and about to go on my hunt.

What is a "somewhat higher" price point that is going to kill demand? A NV bull tag is going to cost a NR $1400ish. I have 10 points and the easiest to draw bull tag is less than 2% odds last looked. Thats kind of expensive but the demand is there.

Did the demand for WY tags drop when they drastically increased tag prices? If they did, not enough to make a difference.

Joe six pack can plan on going elk hunting in multiple places right now. I think MT general tags were 60% last year with 0 points? Just going elk hunting isn't that hard. Getting an overhyped premium tag is getting increasingly difficult.

 

[fatlander]

Rokslide is on page 1 of google when searching "elk hunting resources"

I just typed in "DIY Idaho Elk". A Rokslide thread was the 3rd result. A unit number can be added, and you'll get a thread specifically about that unit. If the unit number was in the thread and has since been removed, it still shows up in a google search that specifies the unit. Many of these threads are direct accounts of NRs from other regions, detailing the process for applying and drawing a tag, e-scouting, and the successful hunt.

Y’all do realize that google tailors results for you, based on the data that is captured from your online presence. Rokslide pops up for you guys because you’re here.

Google the same stuff with your wife’s phone and RS
won’t come up. . .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BuckSmasher]

What is a "somewhat higher" price point that is going to kill demand? A NV bull tag is going to cost a NR $1400ish. I have 10 points and the easiest to draw bull tag is less than 2% odds last looked. Thats kind of expensive but the demand is there.

Did the demand for WY tags drop when they drastically increased tag prices? If they did, not enough to make a difference.

Joe six pack can plan on going elk hunting in multiple places right now. I think MT general tags were 60% last year with 0 points? Just going elk hunting isn't that hard. Getting an overhyped premium tag is getting increasingly difficult.

Point taken. Just 'pick up a tag and go hunting' isn't dead yet but it is on life support.

If all WY elk tags were 2k not just 40% of them I think it would have made a difference. Maybe not.

For me personally, especially in those states where I am playing the premium tag game, I would gladly pay 3 or 4K to just draw my hunt and be out of the point creep misery.

 

[wind gypsy]

Point taken. Just 'pick up a tag and go hunting' isn't dead yet but it is on life support.

If all WY elk tags were 2k not just 40% of them I think it would have made a difference. Maybe not.

You're probably right. And unfortunately it would have been a step too far for some budgets IMO.

For me personally, especially in those states where I am playing the premium tag game, I would gladly pay 3 or 4K to just draw my hunt and be out of the point creep misery.

I'm not that up to speed with going rates for landowner tags, but if what i have seen in NM or CO is any indication $3-4k is well below market for more desirable tags but still enough to dissuade a lot of folks from going hunting. I'd pay that too if it were an option but i'd rather we dont price lots of other folks out of the game just because it would make things easier for me.