Bow tuning questions

[rsiwuda]

.

 

[bcar]

Man where were you on Sunday haha. I have a 2012 Bear Anarchy, got a new string put on it a year ago. That guy didn't put the cam back together right, so it's been tilted ever since and was rubbing on the cable a little bit during draw/letdown. It took me until mid season to realize this. A local shop got me all tuned up and we decided to deal with the cam tilt in the off season. So of course here I am right before whitetail season is finally opening and I get back into the local shop. They get the cam tilt fixed, we re-tune, I head out there door. Get home and shoot and I'm hitting 6" left at 20 yards. I max my sight out to the left and get it down to 4" off at 20.

Started shooting paper again and I have a nock right tear, so I moved my rest till I was back to shooting bullet holes. This has my rest crazy far to the left, I didn't measure it but the center shot is definitely way out of spec. I read articles and forums for hours trying to think through different causes, and then late in the afternoon I finally discovered the shop didn't get the snap ring back on the cam axle. The the limbs had separated some (maybe 1/8") allowing the cam to move to the right if you were looking down on the bow from the top. I'm headed back to the shop tomorrow to get things patched back up, and hoping to be done dealing with bow problems until I upgrade in a year or two.

 

[Beendare]

A local shop got me all tuned up and we decided to deal with the cam tilt in the off season.

Some bows need a little cam lean to tune and shoot right. Now if its cutting your serving then of course its a problem.

I tried taking the slight cam lean out of my Hoyt Spyder turbo and it would not tune.....put a little cam lean back and it shoots bullet holes in paper and multiple BH's right with FP's to the same POI at 50 yds.

....

 

[bcar]

Some bows need a little cam lean to tune and shoot right. Now if its cutting your serving then of course its a problem.

I tried taking the slight cam lean out of my Hoyt Spyder turbo and it would not tune.....put a little cam lean back and it shoots bullet holes in paper and multiple BH's right with FP's to the same POI at 50 yds.

....

Yep very true, this was definitely too much though. I hadn't cut through any serving yet, but it was rubbing hard enough to show wear on the serving and marks on the cam as well as increased noise at the shot. At the time it tuned fine and shot great. I just wanted to get the cam issue fixed so I didn't wear out a new string in a couple years.

 

[bcar]

Well I'm back in the same boat... shoved the limbs back together, got a new e-clip, visually centered my rest and sights up, shot through paper and had a terrible nock right tear which gets me back to center shot being way out and sight maxed out to the left

 

[motts]

Try flipping the limbs top and bottom. I have an Elite answer that was doing the same thing until I flip-flopped the top and bottom limbs which, thankfully, corrected the problem.

Like you, I had my bow in a shop for work before the problem developed (had a dry fire after my d-loop broke at one of the knots when checking draw weight and had to get new cams and string/cables); I now do all of my own work and haven't had any issues come up that I couldn't address.

 

[rsiwuda]

Well I'm back in the same boat... shoved the limbs back together, got a new e-clip, visually centered my rest and sights up, shot through paper and had a terrible nock right tear which gets me back to center shot being way out and sight maxed out to the left

Also try shooting through a whisker biscuit and see if the tear is the same.

 

[bcar]

Also try shooting through a whisker biscuit and see if the tear is the same.

Think fletching contact with the drop away or something different?

 

[rsiwuda]

Think fletching contact with the drop away or something different?

It could be various things but if you shoot a bullet with a whisker biscuit then at least you can pretty much bet it's your rest.

 

[bcar]

It could be various things but if you shoot a bullet with a whisker biscuit then at least you can pretty much bet it's your rest.

I'll have to give that a try. I know I've always gotten a little bit of contact b/c I've worn some of the felt off of the rest on the right side (vapor trail pro v), but it's never seemed to affect tuning before, and I've never had this maxed out sight issue. I'm traveling to the in-law's this weekend and hoping to get into the shop in their town.

 

[bcar]

Also check for knock pinch. Do you have a picture of the tear?

nock pinch could be a factor at this point since I've had to move my d-loop slightly. I might be able to get a pic of tears later today.

 

[bcar]

Didn’t end up traveling tonight, so widened my d loop, visually re centered my rest and sights. Left shot was about 6’ and right shot was 10 yards. Was it seriously that simple of a fix??

 

[bcar]

Not out of the water yet. Went out to sight in, about half way through siting in I noticed the cam was rubbing the cable pretty bad again. I shot through paper when I got home and have a pretty bad nock right tear again too.

 

[drose]

@rsiwuda Thank you very much for providing your experience to help the group! Few questions if you have some time - Just getting into the thick of tuning and all the variables that come with it.
I am shooting a PSE premonition HD 2016 29.5'' DL roughly 60 lb DW 29'' Beman ICS classic arrows
1) Would you say that bare shaft tuning is similar to paper tuning, in regards to adjustments and best method to dialing in?
2) BH and FP are grouping within 2 inches at 20'' however when I shot a bare shaft arrow the flight was crazy, out of 2 arrows, both missed the target and detonated upon impact. Can you tune a bare shaft arrow with a whisker biscuit? Is something really screwed up on my rig?
3) What is your opinion on rests for hunting applications? Whisker biscuit or drop away, and why?

Thank you again! Really appreciate the help!

 

[amack26]

Man where were you on Sunday haha. I have a 2012 Bear Anarchy, got a new string put on it a year ago. That guy didn't put the cam back together right, so it's been tilted ever since and was rubbing on the cable a little bit during draw/letdown. It took me until mid season to realize this. A local shop got me all tuned up and we decided to deal with the cam tilt in the off season. So of course here I am right before whitetail season is finally opening and I get back into the local shop. They get the cam tilt fixed, we re-tune, I head out there door. Get home and shoot and I'm hitting 6" left at 20 yards. I max my sight out to the left and get it down to 4" off at 20.

Started shooting paper again and I have a nock right tear, so I moved my rest till I was back to shooting bullet holes. This has my rest crazy far to the left, I didn't measure it but the center shot is definitely way out of spec. I read articles and forums for hours trying to think through different causes, and then late in the afternoon I finally discovered the shop didn't get the snap ring back on the cam axle. The the limbs had separated some (maybe 1/8") allowing the cam to move to the right if you were looking down on the bow from the top. I'm headed back to the shop tomorrow to get things patched back up, and hoping to be done dealing with bow problems until I upgrade in a year or two.

What arrow spine are you shooting? I have been through the same issue with a few clients and at the end of it all it usually ended up being grip issues or arrow spine issues. Could you provide some more information on the set up you are running (arrows, poundage, etc.)?

 

[bcar]

What arrow spine are you shooting? I have been through the same issue with a few clients and at the end of it all it usually ended up being grip issues or arrow spine issues. Could you provide some more information on the set up you are running (arrows, poundage, etc.)?

Shooting Gold Tip Hunter XT's, 340 spines cut at 29" w/100 gr tips. My bow should be around 65 lbs; however, I checked it with my digital scale over the weekend and only got to 56 lbs. I checked my brother in-laws bow and got to 57. He thought his should be around 65 also, so I'm blaming the scale for now. I'll get it checked on a different scale in the next few days to verify. If my bows actually only at 56 pounds, than I have much bigger issues than spines that are a little too stiff, but at 65 lbs my arrows should be fine per the charts. Thanks

 

[amack26]

Shooting Gold Tip Hunter XT's, 340 spines cut at 29" w/100 gr tips. My bow should be around 65 lbs; however, I checked it with my digital scale over the weekend and only got to 56 lbs. I checked my brother in-laws bow and got to 57. He thought his should be around 65 also, so I'm blaming the scale for now. I'll get it checked on a different scale in the next few days to verify. If my bows actually only at 56 pounds, than I have much bigger issues than spines that are a little too stiff, but at 65 lbs my arrows should be fine per the charts. Thanks

It seems like the arrow spine would be the problem. With those 340's at 29 inches they are probably a little too stiff for the setup. I shoot a carbon spyder 34LD at 32in draw length at 80lbs. When I put the new string on a year ago it was at 80 on the money. When I went in to bare shaft and paper tune it came out to 74#'s. I am not a big fan of moving the arrow rest so I tuned it out using cam lean. often micro adjustments on the cam will make a big difference at 20 yards.

Strings stretch over time. If a shop has a string jig they can put the twists back into your strings in cables to get you back to the correct weight. if not you may want to see if they have a 400 spine arrow that you could test. I had this same issue with the Nitrum 34 LD a few years ago at 32" and 80lbs the shop set me up with carbon express 250 spine arrows (carbon express arrow spines are completely different than what are advertised). I went to a different shop out in AZ where they had 250 spine gold tip kinetic kaos and it fixed the problem immediately.

It seems like the strings stretched and dropped the poundage out of the 340 spine range to the 400 spine range. I can't promise it will fix everything but it should help. If this doesn't make a difference they may need to take a look at your cams and axles

 

[bcar]

It seems like the arrow spine would be the problem. With those 340's at 29 inches they are probably a little too stiff for the setup. I shoot a carbon spyder 34LD at 32in draw length at 80lbs. When I put the new string on a year ago it was at 80 on the money. When I went in to bare shaft and paper tune it came out to 74#'s. I am not a big fan of moving the arrow rest so I tuned it out using cam lean. often micro adjustments on the cam will make a big difference at 20 yards.

Strings stretch over time. If a shop has a string jig they can put the twists back into your strings in cables to get you back to the correct weight. if not you may want to see if they have a 400 spine arrow that you could test. I had this same issue with the Nitrum 34 LD a few years ago at 32" and 80lbs the shop set me up with carbon express 250 spine arrows (carbon express arrow spines are completely different than what are advertised). I went to a different shop out in AZ where they had 250 spine gold tip kinetic kaos and it fixed the problem immediately.

It seems like the strings stretched and dropped the poundage out of the 340 spine range to the 400 spine range. I can't promise it will fix everything but it should help. If this doesn't make a difference they may need to take a look at your cams and axles

I'll definitely take a look at that, and I had wondered if it could be part of the erratic paper tears. I shot my previous string for 5 or 6 years and never lost much draw weight, so I'd be fairly shocked if I've lost 10 pounds in a year with this new string, but different strings stretch differently I'm sure. My bigger problem at hand is the cam being leaned enough to rub on the cable during draw and shot, and the fact that they fixed it and then 50 shots later it was just as bad or worse. I'm not sure what to think about that.

 

[amack26]

I'll definitely take a look at that, and I had wondered if it could be part of the erratic paper tears. I shot my previous string for 5 or 6 years and never lost much draw weight, so I'd be fairly shocked if I've lost 10 pounds in a year with this new string, but different strings stretch differently I'm sure. My bigger problem at hand is the cam being leaned enough to rub on the cable during draw and shot, and the fact that they fixed it and then 50 shots later it was just as bad or worse. I'm not sure what to think about that.

I think the simple solution with the amount of cam lean is the arrow is stiff enough that to get it to come out of the bow straight they have to adjust it so far that it starts to rub. With the nitrum I had I ran into the same issue with the carbon express arrows. When I shot the 200 spine gold tip with my bow "tuned" for the 250 CE arrows the tear was in the opposite direction. they re-centered everything and started from factory recommended setup and with a few minor adjustments (1-2 twist in each yoke max) and plenty of room for adjusting the sight I was back on track.

Do you by chance remember where you got the new strings from? Different companies have different quality materials the other factor would be heat. I had a buddy leave an rx3 in his car while he was at work. It was 100+ degrees outside the car and the poundage dropped just over 9lbs and completely threw off his tune. If it was in the garage in its case and you had a warm summer it can really do a number on the strings

 

[bcar]

I think the simple solution with the amount of cam lean is the arrow is stiff enough that to get it to come out of the bow straight they have to adjust it so far that it starts to rub. With the nitrum I had I ran into the same issue with the carbon express arrows. When I shot the 200 spine gold tip with my bow "tuned" for the 250 CE arrows the tear was in the opposite direction. they re-centered everything and started from factory recommended setup and with a few minor adjustments (1-2 twist in each yoke max) and plenty of room for adjusting the sight I was back on track.

Do you by chance remember where you got the new strings from? Different companies have different quality materials the other factor would be heat. I had a buddy leave an rx3 in his car while he was at work. It was 100+ degrees outside the car and the poundage dropped just over 9lbs and completely threw off his tune. If it was in the garage in its case and you had a warm summer it can really do a number on the strings

I believe the cam lean is a separate issue from tuning in my case. I had the new string put on, got my bow back and the cam was leaned, and bow was out of tune. Moved my rest/nock point to get it back in tune and the cam still rubbed (center shot and windage adjustment were not an issue at this point). This year a different shop swapped some spacers around to get rid of the cam lean which initially worked, but now after 50 shots or so it's back to leaning so bad that it rubs against the cable. What you're saying is definitely a valid possibility, I'm just fairly confident that no yoke/string tuning has been done to cause the cam to lean.

Now one possibility is they made some string/cable twists to get the cam lean out last week, and then after 50 shots it stretched some more and started leaning again? Not sure if that's how it works or not, but seems like there's a chance that could happen.

I'm not sure where the guy who made my string got his material from, but I've definitely left it in my car and garage plenty of times in some heat. My ATA is about 1/8" - 1/4" long right now, brace is right at 7".

I'm planning to get back into the shop for a much more detailed tuning session than "move your rest over and get out the door for the next guy in line". I do trust that these guys are capable, I just think they need to be asked/told to take a much deeper look. Also if I had stayed and shot a few more times we would've realized things were still way off track and potentially eliminated a lot of my headaches the last week of trying to figure this stuff out on my own lol. Thanks for chatting back and forth on this, I've definitely learned a lot the last week or two!