Boots - are we doing it wrong

[Poser]

I have been dealing with plantar fasciitis after an attempt at going to the typical stiff shanked “hunting boot.” Ill leave out the brand as that is not the point.

In this journey, I have been learning a lot about feet. Exo recently had a great podcast on this subject and basically pointed out that the hunting boot industry is very much marketing and those heavy, stiff boots are actually terrible for our feet. This resonates with me as they did jack my feet up.

Anyway, for thousands of years, people walked around without fancy expensive boots. Our modern society in general has unhealthy feet with lots of pain. I’m leaning more and more toward going to zero drop minimalist type shoes and boots.

Allow our feet to function the way God made them. I don’t think we can really improve on his design.

Any other thoughts or insights into this? Are we as a culture (including the hunting world) totally doing footwear wrong?

I think one would have to make a definitive argument that human feet evolved to their present condition to carry very heavy loads in mountainous terrain. Its more the case that human feet, as they are in this moment in time, arrived at that "design" to meet the demands of upright travel on the African savannah. The ~75,0000 years since that adaption is not enough time for evolutionary adaptation to anything else and there aren't enough people walking around with 75 lbs packs for sufficiently sustained amounts of times to drive an evolutionary adaptation for this purpose. Therefore, boots are very practical for this specific application.

 

[MuleyFever]

I havent checked the validity of this, but I read one article that discussed how third world countries don’t have the same issues with their feet that modern societies do. Makes sense to me

That would be an interesting study to follow. Many factors to consider. For instance, are they using their feet more as modern societies are using many forms of transportation and walking less? Are we having issues because we buy footwear that is actually designed poorly for our foot because we prioritize fashion? High heels for women? Are quality footwear options available and designed properly but we dont wear them consistently so switching support characteristics causes issues. Big can of worms.

For guys using the lighter flexible footwear what models are you having luck with?

 

[jpmulk]

I think one would have to make a definitive argument that human feet evolved to their present condition to carry very heavy loads in mountainous terrain. It’s more the case that human feet, as they are in this moment in time, arrived at that "design" to meet the demands of upright travel on the African savannah. The ~75,0000 years since that adaption is not enough time for evolutionary adaptation to anything else and there aren't enough people walking around with 75 lbs packs for sufficiently sustained amounts of times to drive an evolutionary adaptation for this purpose. Therefore, boots are very practical for this specific application.

Exo’s argument to that is, most of the time you aren’t wearing a 75 pound pack. Most of the time you are running around with a daypack or camp gear. His statement is that you are better off wearing a boot for what you do 90% of the time. Not 10%. In quite frankly, most people are packing meat for much less than 10% of the time. And you can always keep a stiff boot in your truck for that occassion

 

[IBen]

I think one would have to make a definitive argument that human feet evolved to their present condition to carry very heavy loads in mountainous terrain. Its more the case that human feet, as they are in this moment in time, arrived at that "design" to meet the demands of upright travel on the African savannah. The ~75,0000 years since that adaption is not enough time for evolutionary adaptation to anything else and there aren't enough people walking around with 75 lbs packs for sufficiently sustained amounts of times to drive an evolutionary adaptation for this purpose. Therefore, boots are very practical for this specific application.

Humans aren't really adapted to anything on this earth to other than using the brain to invent devices to mimic everything animals have/can do lol. If we are naked without tools we die pretty quickly

 

[Poser]

Exo’s argument to that is, most of the time you aren’t wearing a 75 pound pack. Most of the time you are running around with a daypack or camp gear. His statement is that you are better off wearing a boot for what you do 90% of the time. Not 10%. In quite frankly, most people are packing meat for much less than 10% of the time. And you can always keep a stiff boot in your truck for that occassion

I personally don't use a "stiff" boot as they are just too clunky on moderate terrain. I prefer a softer flex, though, I still find boots to be the most practical choice for carrying a pack, be it 30 lbs or 50 lbs or otherwise in difficult, off trail terrain.

 

[Poser]

Humans aren't really adapted to anything on this earth to other than using the brain to invent devices to mimic everything animals have/can do lol. If we are naked without tools we die pretty quickly

The mere fact that we walk upright counters this claim.

 

[RyanT26]

I tried to use stiff boot because it was what I was told I needed. Kenetrek mountain extreme with the standard insole absolutely wrecked my feet. I put 50 miles, they still sucked. Called Kenetrek and they said try to do another 50 with them and they would be great. I got to 100 and they still sucked. Got to the point my feet hurt whether I was wearing them or not.
I won’t wear anything over a stiffness rating of 3. Solomon GTX4 were great for me as well as the Kenetrek Corrie hiker.

 

[Loo.wii]

I have been dealing with plantar fasciitis after an attempt at going to the typical stiff shanked “hunting boot.” Ill leave out the brand as that is not the point.

In this journey, I have been learning a lot about feet. Exo recently had a great podcast on this subject and basically pointed out that the hunting boot industry is very much marketing and those heavy, stiff boots are actually terrible for our feet. This resonates with me as they did jack my feet up.

Anyway, for thousands of years, people walked around without fancy expensive boots. Our modern society in general has unhealthy feet with lots of pain. I’m leaning more and more toward going to zero drop minimalist type shoes and boots.

Allow our feet to function the way God made them. I don’t think we can really improve on his design.

Any other thoughts or insights into this? Are we as a culture (including the hunting world) totally doing footwear wrong?

Those toe socks work wonders too. I've transitioned from hiking boots because of the issue you've referenced above. I made the switch to trail runners with minimal drop; and a mildly stiff sole and a wide toe box. life changing. I recommend HOKA

At one point i though people who wore to socks and walked bare foot were crazy but ive been fully converted at this point. that being said YMMV.

 

[Loo.wii]

I think one would have to make a definitive argument that human feet evolved to their present condition to carry very heavy loads in mountainous terrain. Its more the case that human feet, as they are in this moment in time, arrived at that "design" to meet the demands of upright travel on the African savannah. The ~75,0000 years since that adaption is not enough time for evolutionary adaptation to anything else and there aren't enough people walking around with 75 lbs packs for sufficiently sustained amounts of times to drive an evolutionary adaptation for this purpose. Therefore, boots are very practical for this specific application.

Ive recently explored the ideas surrounding the human foot and some peoples position regarding bare foot or sandaled running hiking etc . Ive met a few people recently that walk/run bare foot or as bare foot as possible. outside of the first painful period of callousing your feet, i have heard that its a superior. Our feet arent really supposed to be bound by socks and shoes. Just look at the feet of indigenous people across the americas and more traditional communities around the world. Humans are the best distance runners out of every animal on the planet. we used to do that **** bare foot.

 

[Poser]

Ive recently explored the ideas surrounding the human foot and some peoples position regarding bare foot or sandaled running hiking etc . Ive met a few people recently that walk/run bare foot or as bare foot as possible. outside of the first painful period of callousing your feet, i have heard that its a superior. Our feet arent really supposed to be bound by socks and shoes. Just look at the feet of indigenous people across the americas and more traditional communities around the world. Humans are the best distance runners out of every animal on the planet. we used to do that **** bare foot.

Exactly. Humans did that on the African Savannah, where the upright evolutionary adaptation occurred.
That, however, doesn't exactly translate into the most effective way to carrying heavy loads in the mountains.

The Clovis hunters, for example, were wearing footwear in the form of sandals and insulated footwear by the time they arrived in the Americas via the Bering Straight. Its seems fairly certain that as soon as humans started migrating out of the African savannah, they were employing footwear for various terrain and colder climates.

Its a nice thought and all, a bit romantic in terms of human history, but the idea is completely wrapped up in one period of human history in one particular and fairly specific setting and climate.

 

[Loo.wii]

Exactly. Humans did that on the African Savannah, where the upright evolutionary adaptation occurred.
That, however, doesn't exactly translate into the most effective way to carrying heavy loads in the mountains.

The Clovis hunters, for example, were wearing footwear in the form of sandals and insulated footwear by the time they arrived in the Americas via the Bering Straight. Its seems fairly certain that as soon as humans started migrating out of the African savannah, they were employing footwear for various terrain and colder climates.

Its a nice thought and all, a bit romantic in terms of human history, but the idea is completely wrapped up in one period of human history in one particular and fairly specific setting and climate.

This is a pretty deep rabbit hole where we I am not nearly qualified enough to speak on. I’d be interested in any studies surrounding this.

Another caveat is that from my personal experience people of African descent tend to have flat feet which also affects load carrying capacity and needs regarding foot wear.

 

[Loo.wii]

I train in and wear daily zero drop and minimalist style shoes. Even my backpack hikes I'll wear my Altra Lone Peaks or similar with 60# or less.

But put me in the mountains packing elk and I'll gladly take my Crispi Nevada. Your feet and ankles will be adequately developed, but then the added protection and support of the boots will make you feel unstoppable. My 2 cents.

I'll listen to the podcast. I like the Exo guys.

how do you feel about the toe box on those? the lack of ability to splay the piggys in most shoes is quite bothersome.

 

[jpmulk]

I think another of the big issues here is the heel drop in modern shoes. Definitely not the way the human body was designed to function. Changes the angle of your knees and is not healthy

 

[Fatcamp]

Cactus.

Anything other than heavy leather boots and that stuff makes me miserable.

 

[HighUintas]

It is painfully obvious (ha) why some ancient cultures used sandals even when in consistently warm climate.... Cacti

 

[mdp22]

I don't think this post was mentioned yet Plantar Fasciitis thread. Stretching helped with my bout of PF, very simple calf stretches. Lot's of money is made off the sale of insoles, shoes, etc. when stretching could help a bunch of people.

 

[dreamingWest]

how do you feel about the toe box on those? the lack of ability to splay the piggys in most shoes is quite bothersome.

Altra Lone Peaks still have their "original" fit so they are good for toe splay. I just had to return Altra Superior 6. They were too tight. I hate that Altra is changing from what made them unique. I'm going to try out some Inov-8 for weightlifting and shorter cardio.

I elk hunted the Missouri Breaks in the Altra Lone Peak Mids. This was when I was flirting with very minimal footwear based on the context I assume is discussed in the Exo podcast. (I still need to listen). The cactus killed me! Not just sitting in the wrong spots. Like needles actually coming up through the soles. That's when I decided I'll continue to get my feet and ankles prepared using minimal footwear. But I'll continue to hunt in boots.

My Crispi Nevada's are size 10 wide. I went through several different hunting boots before choosing. I really like them. No blisters, even when new. They could be a smidge wider to promote better blood flow.

 

[Maverick1]

Everyone’s feet are different. So what works for one person may not work with another’s.

What works for me is zero drop shoes for everyday wear and minimalist hikers (6”, 2 pounds a pair) boots in the mountains.

I could not imagine wearing full leather, mid calf boots that weight 4.5 pounds in the mountains. That would be like my locking ankles in a fixed position, transferring all the movement into my lower back, while wearing an extra 2.5 lbs of ankle weights and hiking around - miserable.

 

[MuleyFever]

What works for me is zero drop shoes for everyday wear and minimalist hikers (6”, 2 pounds a pair) boots in the mountains.

What boots are you using?

 

[kad11]

I have been dealing with plantar fasciitis after an attempt at going to the typical stiff shanked “hunting boot.” Ill leave out the brand as that is not the point.

In this journey, I have been learning a lot about feet. Exo recently had a great podcast on this subject and basically pointed out that the hunting boot industry is very much marketing and those heavy, stiff boots are actually terrible for our feet. This resonates with me as they did jack my feet up.

Anyway, for thousands of years, people walked around without fancy expensive boots. Our modern society in general has unhealthy feet with lots of pain. I’m leaning more and more toward going to zero drop minimalist type shoes and boots.

Allow our feet to function the way God made them. I don’t think we can really improve on his design.

Any other thoughts or insights into this? Are we as a culture (including the hunting world) totally doing footwear wrong?

I had the opposite experience - went from using Oboz Bridgers for 5 years and eventually developed some pretty debilitating foot and ankle issues. I switched to Kenetreks and have been pain free for the last 5 or 6 years. For reference, I probably went through 5 pairs of the Oboz in the same amount of time I've been wearing one pair of Kenetreks.

My preference would be to use the lightest, most flexible boot that feet and use case will tolerate.