Boat Advice

[69ChrisCraft01]

I was hoping some of you guys have the type of rig that covers my interests and you could provide some advice.

I live in Central California and am looking for a rig that fishes/bowfishes lakes, rivers and occasionally the delta. I used to fish the middle Sacramento quite a bit (lived on a houseboat) and I would love to fish the Red Bluff to Sac stretch, Feather etc. (jet territory). I'm currently looking at a Crestliner 1860 center console tunnel Jon (.100 bottom) with a Merc 115/80 hp jet.

I've come to terms with the fact that this is a series of compromises and while a prop boat performs better it excludes me from a lot of the river fishing. It looks like there's a few guys that run this setup in Idaho on more mild stretches of river....? How capable is this setup? For those that own something similar what would you do differently?

Opinions on Crestliner/Merc?

I started this journey with a budget of $15k and came to the realization that $25k needs to be my upper limit. I've owned several used boats and have no interest in buying used again.

Thanks for any help.

-Chris

 

[AK Troutbum]

I'm not familiar with that river, but if coming into contact with rocks is likely, a .100 bottom is pretty thin....enough said on that. Is the Crestliner welded or riveted? Also, if $25K is your upper limit, it seems like you could do pretty well even with a new buy. Have you looked at any other makes, ie., Alweld, SeaArk, G3, etc. I know that there are a few with a little thicker bottoms (.125). As far as motors go, I think that it's basically a Ford vs. Dodge vs. Chevy thing. Personally I like Yamaha's with Honda's being a close second. Also, I wouldn't even consider center console, tiller steer all the way. Much easier to maneuver in tight conditions with a lot more room for error when it's coupled with a jet pump.

 

[mod700]

Good advice above, give that SeaArk 1872 mvjt a look. .125" bottom, 28" tall sides for the rougher water that you can get on the delta when the wind blows. Tiller jet, leaves plenty of floor space, room up front for your carp platform. If you plan on running the upper sac., or feather, a jet is a must have. Guide model box seats are handy, plenty of storage, and can move to balance load, or move to sleep, or leave out on carp adventures. I'm a Yamaha guy as well, but see plenty of merc's on the water as well. Good luck with your search and remember, a boat shrinks 2' the first time you get in it after you bought it.
Mike

 

[69ChrisCraft01]

I'm not familiar with that river, but if coming into contact with rocks is likely, a .100 bottom is pretty thin....enough said on that. Is the Crestliner welded or riveted? Also, if $25K is your upper limit, it seems like you could do pretty well even with a new buy. Have you looked at any other makes, ie., Alweld, SeaArk, G3, etc. I know that there are a few with a little thicker bottoms (.125). As far as motors go, I think that it's basically a Ford vs. Dodge vs. Chevy thing. Personally I like Yamaha's with Honda's being a close second. Also, I wouldn't even consider center console, tiller steer all the way. Much easier to maneuver in tight conditions with a lot more room for error when it's coupled with a jet pump.

I've looked at virtually all of them. Only G3, Crestliner, alumaweld and Lowe are available within a day's drive....all welded .100 hulls. I would love a tiller but with having a fuel tank, myself, battery and a 400 lb outboard all near the transom I can only imagine trying to get up on step in the shallows with that ass end weight. Also, wouldn't the center console give you much better visibility while running sketchy water?

I've heard SeaArk is likely the best hull and they do make .125 if you step up to a 72" bottom. Maybe I'll have to make the 1,000 mile drive to get one....leaves me SOL for any warranty issues though. I looked at a 2072 today and holy crap that thing is a barge.

 

[mod700]

I've looked at virtually all of them. Only G3, Crestliner, alumaweld and Lowe are available within a day's drive....all welded .100 hulls. I would love a tiller but with having a fuel tank, myself, battery and a 400 lb outboard all near the transom I can only imagine trying to get up on step in the shallows with that ass end weight. Also, wouldn't the center console give you much better visibility while running sketchy water?

I've heard SeaArk is likely the best hull and they do make .125 if you step up to a 72" bottom. Maybe I'll have to make the 1,000 mile drive to get one....leaves me SOL for any warranty issues though. I looked at a 2072 today and holy crap that thing is a barge.

A lot of guys run the fuel tank in the bow, under the deck, and you can run your batteries from there also, and yes the 2072 is a lot of boat, a buddy has one.
mike

 

[69ChrisCraft01]

Good advice above, give that SeaArk 1872 mvjt a look. .125" bottom, 28" tall sides for the rougher water that you can get on the delta when the wind blows. Tiller jet, leaves plenty of floor space, room up front for your carp platform. If you plan on running the upper sac., or feather, a jet is a must have. Guide model box seats are handy, plenty of storage, and can move to balance load, or move to sleep, or leave out on carp adventures. I'm a Yamaha guy as well, but see plenty of merc's on the water as well. Good luck with your search and remember, a boat shrinks 2' the first time you get in it after you bought it.
Mike

Thanks. I do like the idea of taller sides.

Is there any truth to larger displacement engines within the same HP being better for jet applications? On one hand I'd think lighter is better but on the other maybe the torque curve of a bigger displacement is better for a jet?

I can't seem to find much consistent info on jet applications. Some say tunnels suck, other swear by them. Some guys say jets suck with a load while guys in AK are hauling 2 guys and a moose out on a 65 HP jet.

 

[Felix40]

I have run jets and regular outboards that are very similar in size and the boat they are sitting on. A jet just doesn't come close to a prop especially in reverse which is almost nonexistent in a jet. Also a jet will have more maintenance imo because you are constantly having to add shims and unclog rocks and stuff from the intake. Upside is that if you need a jet you really need one bad. Those guys in Alaska you are talking about aren't running 50mph with loads like that but they would probably be dead in the water if the were running anything else. If I had all the money I needed to get what I want it would be a decent size tunnel hull (1872 ish) with a regular outboard and a jack plate. That's what we run at work and it's about as good as you can get for doing it all with one boat.

 

[Felix40]

Oh yeah and I've seen what sea arks can stand up to. Very solid boats. Maybe not the best riding or handling but very very solid.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Yup, run the fuel tanks from the bow and if weight at the back of the transom is still a big concern put flotation pods on it. Trust me, the difference in hole shot, with flotation pods, is huge. Also, how is the construction of that Crestliner? What's the stringer layout like, how are the chines made? Reverse chines are a big benefit when making tight turns (I don't think any of these builders have reverse chines or sharp chines along the bottom), most of their bottoms are just stamped/rolled aluminum, so this would be something that you may want to upgrade. If you do come in contact with the bottom chances are the chines will be the first thing to suffer. As far as console versus tiller, I'm telling you man, the lock to lock on a console steer combined with an outboard, is a major pain in the ass when you're dealing with tight rivers/creeks. You need to run a suicide knob and even then you wear yourself out, not to mention the fact that, if you're not on it, 100% of the time, you'll end up high and dry on a gravel bar or up in the brush in a cutbank. I think the benefit of a 72" bottom over 60" is pretty significant also, and something that you probably shouldn't overlook.

Oh, as far as visibility, when you're running difficult streams or streams that you're unfamiliar with, you stand up. The only difference there, between the console and tiller is, you're just a couple feet further forward with the console, which might be a little advantage but pretty insignificant.

 

[mod700]

Rule of thumb with a jet, is your giving up about 30% hp. at the jet. I would lean to the max rating on h.p,.. for several reasons, performance with a jet, and being able to haul a load, be it a few friends, or a few large tubs full of carp. Nothing much worse than not being to be able to get up on pad (in a short distance) because of lack of h.p. I'm not well versed on the displacement/torque curve aspect. I run a 200 hp. Yamaha on a 20' Willie predator, I wouldn't think of going any smaller. Good luck.
Mike

 

[280twoeighty]

I would just say to avoid G3. I have not had a good experience with them. The dealer had something to do with it. But just soured me on them all together.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Oh, I didn't address the whole warranty issue. So there is not a SeaArk dealer within 1000 miles of you? Chances are great that you won't need to deal with any warranty issues anyway, and I'm sure that if there are any warranty issues they would work with you. As far as lighter weight minimalists hulls go, there's probably more SeaArk boats running around up here than any other single manufacture and they build a pretty bomber hull for the weight.

 

[69ChrisCraft01]

Thanks for the responses guys. The SeaArk website is god awful but it looks like I have a dealer in Idaho ~550 miles away. The next closest is ~1,300. Being that I'd be much more likely to have an issue with the motor I'm thinking of buying the hull at the Sea Ark dealer and the motor somewhere close.

I'm aware of the loss in power of the jet and it looks like the 1872 is maxed at 80hp for tiller. So a 115/80 jet it'll have to be. Sponsons look to be a great addition.

I think you guys are right on the tiller application. That's where I originally started and then talked myself out of it. I've been round and round for weeks with this boat decision and have only gotten further from making one.

I think an 1872 with 28" sides, .125 bottom and tunnel tiller 80 hp jet is my ticket. Thanks again

 

[AK Troutbum]

I run a 200 hp. Yamaha on a 20' Willie predator, I wouldn't think of going any smaller.

That's the boat I want! unfortunately my champagne appetite doesn't work too well with my beer billfold.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I have run jets and regular outboards that are very similar in size and the boat they are sitting on. A jet just doesn't come close to a prop especially in reverse which is almost nonexistent in a jet. Also a jet will have more maintenance imo because you are constantly having to add shims and unclog rocks and stuff from the intake. Upside is that if you need a jet you really need one bad. Those guys in Alaska you are talking about aren't running 50mph with loads like that but they would probably be dead in the water if the were running anything else. If I had all the money I needed to get what I want it would be a decent size tunnel hull (1872 ish) with a regular outboard and a jack plate. That's what we run at work and it's about as good as you can get for doing it all with one boat.

This was probably about the most weight I ever hauled in mine (21' Phantom Sportjon with 200 hp Mercury Sport Jet and right around 180 hp at the pump). The 200 hp Mercury Optimax Sportjet is probably the best inboard power to weight ratio you can get (I think the powerhead coupled with that pump weighs a total of 360 lbs).
Two people and all of our gear for a two-week moose hunt with a little over 250 gallons of fuel on board. We went up a series of rivers, approximately 500 river miles, to access our moose area.

Then the return home with two moose and not quite as much fuel. We had staged fuel along the way and picked it up as we headed back home. Needless to say we weren't running 50 mph but I think, fully loaded, we averaged about 27 mph.

 

[kpk]

Out of curiosity - what's the big benefit of a jet? I don't know anyone that runs a jet boat around here. It's either an outboard on a jackplate or a mudmotor on dedicated duck boats.

 

[Ray]

Are the Mercury E-tec motors legal in CA? If you want to maximize the jet performance you need a powerful, light motor. My old Honda 50/35 4-stroke jet is a heavy weak pig. I need pods on my old Roughneck 1655 to support it. My old roughneck is also a prop tunnel design that I've had modified to a jet tunnel and it sucks worse than before. I should have gone with pods from the start. Now, any water surface other than glass smooth results in cavitation. The modified tunnel traps any air that gets under the hull and compresses it into the jet foot. To counter this I need to build in a vent system, but with the modified tunnel that requires a stupid amount of re-work.

Which is why I will soon change over to a surface drive mud motor. Probably a belt driven Mud Buddy, but their outboard based geared motors look interesting for most of my uses. These sport V motors can be set up with Mercury remote steering.

If you deal with any kind of water plants a jet will kill your soul. Its hard to put a stomp grate on an outboard. And water plants are why I'm considering a mud motor. Get some prop power back, grind weeds and sticks, stop worrying about sucking and pumping rocks, etc.

Most console steered boats don't get you far enough forward to see hazards. If you are in a river that makes you rock dodge a lot you might want to move the steering up to just behind the bow. My buddy in Talkeetna has his Hydro-lite set up with the steering about 3 feet behind the bow deck. He can see really well running to Clear creek up the upper Deshka.

 

[BroodBuster]

Out of curiosity - what's the big benefit of a jet? I don't know anyone that runs a jet boat around here. It's either an outboard on a jackplate or a mudmotor on dedicated duck boats.

The biggest benifit of a jet is you can run them in a few inches of water (as long as you're on step) without destroying the prop.

 

[BroodBuster]

For the OP check out Wooldridge. Probably out of your price range but you might get lucky. May as well start with the original. If nothing else they have a fascinating history. And their youtube's are pretty entertaining.

 

[xziang]

Like someone else said 'pods' for floatation might be a benefit. People around here (NE) for shallow running are using a mud motor but that is generally only needed for short distances and I wouldn't suggest one.

I only know of one person who had a 'jet' drive on their outboard and they did loose some speed compared to props (as others have indicated). There just isn't as much of a need for a jet drive around here.

Friend has a G3 CC boat and it is very nice and put together well but the sides are rather short along with the back too. Good luck with your search and research.