Blue Loctite Alternative??

[Formidilosus]

Wrong. You are an influencer.

Do you actually know what that term means?

It says 'Super moderator' on your title too.

I am not a moderator- that is only so that I can make and lock scope eval threads.

What you say matters, a lot. Do more research.

Do more research? You have to be trolling.

Right now there a convoy of young people heading off to the nail salon - to hold their gun together. You'll likely accept you're wrong on this someday, but this stuff be out there.

Once again- quote exactly what I stated that is wrong.

I’m sure that in the next half a million or so rounds I will have a miraculous epiphany that didn’t occur in the last half million.

 

[Formidilosus]

So anaerobic thread lockers are a liability if they don’t cure but then why not use an externally curing thread locker like Vibra-Tite VC3 or Loctite thread locker tape?

From what I have seen Vibra-Tite works about as well as Loctite 243 overall. I/we have seen a few instances of loose screws after it was applied correctly.

 

[Kurts86]

What do you think is causing anaerobic thread lockers to fail? Oil contamination or something else?

 

[journeyman713]

What do you think is causing anaerobic thread lockers to fail? Oil contamination or something else?

Operator error.
Contamination.
Counterfeit products.

 

[journeyman713]

Do you actually know what that term means?

I am not a moderator- that is only so that I can make and lock scope eval threads.

Do more research? You have to be trolling.

Once again- quote exactly what I stated that is wrong.

I’m sure that in the next half a million or so rounds I will have a miraculous epiphany that didn’t occur in the last half million.

Seriously???

 

[RockAndSage]

What do you think is causing anaerobic thread lockers to fail? Oil contamination or something else?

I think this is the more important subject - it would be good to see some failure analysis done.

Bottom line here for me is that we've got multiple hands-on career skilled technicians saying these threadlockers are exceptionally good and critically important, and have never seen them fail, and several very reasonable and experienced people saying they've seen these adhesives fail. No reason, at all, to question the validity of anyone's professional experiences or observations on any of this.

So...why might 243 be failing here?

So far, this list includes:

1) Fake product
2) Outdated product
3) Improperly stored product
4) Varying levels of prep and degreasing

EDIT for efficiency: 5) Excess, excess, excess - further down in the thread there seems to be a consensus amongst experienced technicians and professionals using threadlockers as part of their job, that especially with small screws, excess loctite can and will keep it from drying and curing.

What else?

Any idea on actual application? Could it be a quality of precision thing, or a dimensional issue on some of these gun-industry fasteners?

Looking for genuine mechanical or chemical possibilities that are causing it not to work as it should in this application.

 

[Formidilosus]

What do you think is causing anaerobic thread lockers to fail? Oil contamination or something else?

I would guess it’s air getting into the threads or bad thread locker. If it’s bad thread locker, there’s no way to know that before using it and it failing. It’s definitely not oil- we are psychotic about degreasing and no oil.

In any case, there hasn’t been a downside to paint pen/nail polish, and it removes the worry.

 

[Formidilosus]

Any idea on actual application? Could it be a quality of precision thing, or a dimensional issue on some of these gun-industry fasteners?

In these cases it probably a dimensional issue with fasteners.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

Any idea on actual application? Could it be a quality of precision thing, or a dimensional issue on some of these gun-industry fasteners?

Looking for genuine mechanical or chemical possibilities that are causing it not to work as it should in this application.

It wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t just some dimensional issue. We’re not talking about parts that are likely designed for thread locker to even be used on them compared to aircraft engines that have been brought up.

 

[2531usmc]

It wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t just some dimensional issue. We’re not talking about parts that are likely designed for thread locker to even be used on them compared to aircraft engines that have been brought up.

That would imply very poor quality control in the firearms business. Suprising for precise and expensive optics….

 

[Smithb9841]

I think this is the more important subject - it would be good to see some failure analysis done.

Bottom line here for me is that we've got multiple hands-on career skilled technicians saying these threadlockers are exceptionally good and critically important, and have never seen them fail, and several very reasonable and experienced people saying they've seen these adhesives fail. No reason, at all, to question the validity of anyone's professional experiences or observations on any of this.

So...why might 243 be failing here?

So far, this list includes:

1) Fake product
2) Outdated product
3) Improperly stored product
4) Varying levels of prep and degreasing

What else?

Any idea on actual application? Could it be a quality of precision thing, or a dimensional issue on some of these gun-industry fasteners?

Looking for genuine mechanical or chemical possibilities that are causing it not to work as it should in this application.

Using too much loctite will cause it to not dry properly. I have seen this happen. We actually tested this at work because we had another mechanic that was drenching every bolt he put in, in loctite and it wouldn’t dry. If your curious about how little loctite is needed order a bag of small screws that have loctite/threadlocker already applied and you’ll be surprised how thin of a layer is on the thread.


Also as Someone else mentioned loctite is not designed for threads under 6mm/1/4” check the website. This goes back to my first point it’s really easy to use too much especially on tiny screws.

Here is a screenshot from the Henkel website about using too much not curing properly

 

[RockAndSage]

That would imply very poor quality control in the firearms business. Suprising for precise and expensive optics….

Optics internals can be pretty precise, but rings and the rest?

Using too much loctite will cause it to not dry properly. I have seen this happen. We actually tested this at work because we had another mechanic that was drenching every bolt he put in, in loctite and it wouldn’t dry. If your curious about how little loctite is needed order a bag of small screws that have loctite/threadlocker already applied and you’ll be surprised how thin of a layer is on the thread.


Also as Someone else mentioned loctite is not designed for threads under 6mm/1/4” check the website. This goes back to my first point it’s really easy to use too much especially on tiny screws.

Here is a screenshot from the Henkel website about using too much not curing properlyView attachment 733371

This is great, and makes a lot of sense.

 

[journeyman713]

Using too much loctite will cause it to not dry properly. I have seen this happen. We actually tested this at work because we had another mechanic that was drenching every bolt he put in, in loctite and it wouldn’t dry. If your curious about how little loctite is needed order a bag of small screws that have loctite/threadlocker already applied and you’ll be surprised how thin of a layer is on the thread.


Also as Someone else mentioned loctite is not designed for threads under 6mm/1/4” check the website. This goes back to my first point it’s really easy to use too much especially on tiny screws.

Here is a screenshot from the Henkel website about using too much not curing properlyView attachment 733371

Another good point.
But operator error, and reading instructions, was already brought up and aggressively ignored in this thread.

 

[PathFinder]

I've had Loctite 242 fail to set on action screws. The action screws on my Tikka loosened last year. This caused a .2-.3 mil shift in a very well bedded stock. When I removed the action screws to check them all of the Loctite was liquid, completely uncured. It was replaced with new Loctite and hasn't been an issue since.
There seems to be a consensus appearing out of the hurt feelings that there are several factors critical to use of Loctite. Expiration date, storage, correct formula, and correct application. This is consistent with my experience at work and with other adhesives. It's well known in the archery world that adhesives expire and need to be replaced. Loctite is widely proven in industrial applications, but is dependent on correct storage, application, and selection.
An objective test vs nail polish and paint pens would be useful. There's nothing to suggest they don't work just fine.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[RockAndSage]

That would imply very poor quality control in the firearms business. Suprising for precise and expensive optics….

Generally speaking, optics and additive manufacturing are about the only places in the gun industry that have moved much beyond 1960s standards and capabilities. But precision and QC are genuinely different things, and as much optics have moved forward, there aren't many companies out there doing firearms parts or accessories - including scope rings - with modernized precision standards common to other industries, like aerospace.

 

[2531usmc]

Optics internals can be pretty precise, but rings and the rest?



This is great, and makes a lot of sense.

One would think Leupold, Swarovski would be selling a system engineered solution not precise optics and half ass mounts

 

[RockAndSage]

One would think Leupold, Swarovski would be selling a system engineered solution not precise optics and half ass mounts

You really would. And you'd think they'd actually value ruggedizing those optics too.

 

[Bcleck90]

I’ve had Loctite stay liquid after degreasing everything. It may have been user error or old Loctite or both. I’ve switched to paint pens and haven’t had that issue again. It’s not as messy either. Win win for my uses.

 

[PNWGATOR]

I too have had failures…multiple in fact. This specific new tube on multiple applications after full degrease with acetone.

Fasteners loosened. The solution was still ‘wet’ and had not cured.

Multiple failures within the last 30 days.

 

[Kurts86]

So the consensus is that people can’t follow directions so instead of using thread locker from nasa’s tool box we will use nail polish from Ru Paul’s makeup drawer because it’s more reliable.