Blaser R8 Field Evaluation

@Formidilosus you know how much of a fan of Blaser`s K95 I am ... I'd love you to make a field evaluation of one, and if you could use rail mounts instead thet would be even greater ;-)
 
Southern Lights said:
When I get to the range I'm going to mount identical SHV scopes in a Blaser mount and another on pic rail with stout rings and see if I can replicate this. I'll need a bit of time to get this done.
Click to expand...

Ok I got the range and tested my rifle. I had two setups barrels with me:

6.5CM with NXS 2.5-10
270 with NXS 2.5-10

I wanted to test with the 6.5CM so I shot the zero and found it was about 0.75 mil low. This was really irritating to me as I just used this rifle in an NRL match and didn't check zero before the shoot so it was either off before the match, happened during the match, or during transport after. I don't know. But now I'm suspicious before the test even began that something is wrong.

The 6.5CM barrel and this NXS scope are new to me as I just got this setup. The NXS is an old scope with mil-dot reticle and was purchased used so I don't know the history. However it was in good clean condition and I didn't see any signs of abuse.

Regardless, I re-zeroed the rifle an then dropped it from 18" on the left side (parrallax knob) on a ridgerest camping mat on grass. This is a very easy drop equivalent to a rifle tipping over or maybe your pack falling backwards with the rifle strapped to it. There is no reason why any scope should shift with this kind of drop.

The result of this is the impact shifted to the right about 1".

I zeroed again and then did 3X 36" drops on left side. Shifted about 2 mils right.

So now I'm confused because I don't know if it's the rifle, the mount, or the scope. I pull the scope and put it in NF rings on a Gunstar Picrail. Zero and shoot. Then drop. Shifted right again with this new mount.

So I can now say perhaps the mount itself is probably not involved. But it could be the rifle or the scope. In hindsight I should have zeroed the scope, pulled it from the rifle, and then just hit it on the side without it mounted, then put it back on and shot. This would have told me if it was the scope itself. Sadly I didn't think of doing this. However I had something almost as good...

I pulled the 6.5 barrel and put on my trusty 270 barrel into the same stock. This 270 also has an identical mildot 2.5-10 NXS scope. I have never had this rifle shift zero. I have literally had it zeroed for years with the same ammo at times and it never ever moves.

I shoot and check zero. I then go right to 3X 36" left side drops. No shift with the 270.

I also took the rifle out this weekend and shot a fallow at 374m (409y) with a double lung hit with the 270. Elevation and zero have not moved even since this drop and driving a few hundred kilometers with the rifle bouncing around the back of my truck.

So my conclusion is I have no conclusion. I need to check the NXS scope on the 6.5CM setup further to make sure it's not at fault. The impact moving to the right based on left side scope drop is interesting. If I'm thinking this correctly, the mount from left side impact would have moved right (if it moved) which would cause the bullet impact to move left which is not what is happening here. Moving right based on left side impact almost seems like the internals maybe shifted and not the mount.

I leave this to the wisdom of the group to provide input. @Formidilosus fallow1.jpeg
 
Southern Lights said:
Ok I got the range and tested my rifle. I had two setups barrels with me:

6.5CM with NXS 2.5-10
270 with NXS 2.5-10

I wanted to test with the 6.5CM so I shot the zero and found it was about 0.75 mil low. This was really irritating to me as I just used this rifle in an NRL match and didn't check zero before the shoot so it was either off before the match, happened during the match, or during transport after. I don't know. But now I'm suspicious before the test even began that something is wrong.

The 6.5CM barrel and this NXS scope are new to me as I just got this setup. The NXS is an old scope with mil-dot reticle and was purchased used so I don't know the history. However it was in good clean condition and I didn't see any signs of abuse.

Regardless, I re-zeroed the rifle an then dropped it from 18" on the left side (parrallax knob) on a ridgerest camping mat on grass. This is a very easy drop equivalent to a rifle tipping over or maybe your pack falling backwards with the rifle strapped to it. There is no reason why any scope should shift with this kind of drop.

The result of this is the impact shifted to the right about 1".

I zeroed again and then did 3X 36" drops on left side. Shifted about 2 mils right.

So now I'm confused because I don't know if it's the rifle, the mount, or the scope. I pull the scope and put it in NF rings on a Gunstar Picrail. Zero and shoot. Then drop. Shifted right again with this new mount.

So I can now say perhaps the mount itself is probably not involved. But it could be the rifle or the scope. In hindsight I should have zeroed the scope, pulled it from the rifle, and then just hit it on the side without it mounted, then put it back on and shot. This would have told me if it was the scope itself. Sadly I didn't think of doing this. However I had something almost as good...

I pulled the 6.5 barrel and put on my trusty 270 barrel into the same stock. This 270 also has an identical mildot 2.5-10 NXS scope. I have never had this rifle shift zero. I have literally had it zeroed for years with the same ammo at times and it never ever moves.

I shoot and check zero. I then go right to 3X 36" left side drops. No shift with the 270.

I also took the rifle out this weekend and shot a fallow at 374m (409y) with a double lung hit with the 270. Elevation and zero have not moved even since this drop and driving a few hundred kilometers with the rifle bouncing around the back of my truck.

So my conclusion is I have no conclusion. I need to check the NXS scope on the 6.5CM setup further to make sure it's not at fault. The impact moving to the right based on left side scope drop is interesting. If I'm thinking this correctly, the mount from left side impact would have moved right (if it moved) which would cause the bullet impact to move left which is not what is happening here. Moving right based on left side impact almost seems like the internals maybe shifted and not the mount.

I leave this to the wisdom of the group to provide input. @Formidilosus View attachment 996436
Click to expand...
Could still be the scope mount moving. Id shoot it drop it then unmount and remount.
 
Southern Lights said:
Ok I got the range and tested my rifle. I had two setups barrels with me:

6.5CM with NXS 2.5-10
270 with NXS 2.5-10

I wanted to test with the 6.5CM so I shot the zero and found it was about 0.75 mil low. This was really irritating to me as I just used this rifle in an NRL match and didn't check zero before the shoot so it was either off before the match, happened during the match, or during transport after. I don't know. But now I'm suspicious before the test even began that something is wrong.

The 6.5CM barrel and this NXS scope are new to me as I just got this setup. The NXS is an old scope with mil-dot reticle and was purchased used so I don't know the history. However it was in good clean condition and I didn't see any signs of abuse.

Regardless, I re-zeroed the rifle an then dropped it from 18" on the left side (parrallax knob) on a ridgerest camping mat on grass. This is a very easy drop equivalent to a rifle tipping over or maybe your pack falling backwards with the rifle strapped to it. There is no reason why any scope should shift with this kind of drop.

The result of this is the impact shifted to the right about 1".

I zeroed again and then did 3X 36" drops on left side. Shifted about 2 mils right.

So now I'm confused because I don't know if it's the rifle, the mount, or the scope. I pull the scope and put it in NF rings on a Gunstar Picrail. Zero and shoot. Then drop. Shifted right again with this new mount.

So I can now say perhaps the mount itself is probably not involved. But it could be the rifle or the scope. In hindsight I should have zeroed the scope, pulled it from the rifle, and then just hit it on the side without it mounted, then put it back on and shot. This would have told me if it was the scope itself. Sadly I didn't think of doing this. However I had something almost as good...

I pulled the 6.5 barrel and put on my trusty 270 barrel into the same stock. This 270 also has an identical mildot 2.5-10 NXS scope. I have never had this rifle shift zero. I have literally had it zeroed for years with the same ammo at times and it never ever moves.

I shoot and check zero. I then go right to 3X 36" left side drops. No shift with the 270.

I also took the rifle out this weekend and shot a fallow at 374m (409y) with a double lung hit with the 270. Elevation and zero have not moved even since this drop and driving a few hundred kilometers with the rifle bouncing around the back of my truck.

So my conclusion is I have no conclusion. I need to check the NXS scope on the 6.5CM setup further to make sure it's not at fault. The impact moving to the right based on left side scope drop is interesting. If I'm thinking this correctly, the mount from left side impact would have moved right (if it moved) which would cause the bullet impact to move left which is not what is happening here. Moving right based on left side impact almost seems like the internals maybe shifted and not the mount.

I leave this to the wisdom of the group to provide input. @Formidilosus View attachment 996436
Click to expand...


Yes generally the POI moves in the direction of the drop. If you are having an NXS shift 2 mils from 36” drop- it will be rattling.
 
Stocky said:
Could still be the scope mount moving. Id shoot it drop it then unmount and remount.
Click to expand...

My concern is I used the Blaser mount, then a pic rail w/NF rings and it still moved. I'm going to pull the scope and wind the knobs fully each way to see if I can reset things. Again I don't know the history of this particular scope and the fact it uses the NF mildot tells me it will be old. I'll test again and if it shifts I'll dismount the scope and bang it then put it back on and see if it still shifts.

So again I don't want to take anything from this test, except that the known good 270 scope/barrel combo did not move.
 
Formidilosus said:
Yes generally the POI moves in the direction of the drop. If you are having an NXS shift 2 mils from 36” drop- it will be rattling.
Click to expand...
I did give it a good shake thinking the same thing. When I got the scope I don't recall if I really ran the knobs each way so I'll do that and test again just in case something was sticking due to age, etc.
 
Southern Lights said:
I did give it a good shake thinking the same thing. When I got the scope I don't recall if I really ran the knobs each way so I'll do that and test again just in case something was sticking due to age, etc.
Click to expand...

That should not be a thing. NXS’s are not Leupold’s- their erectors don’t get stuck.

The most likely reason is that you have a mount/rifle issue.
 
Southern Lights said:
My concern is I used the Blaser mount, then a pic rail w/NF rings and it still moved. I'm going to pull the scope and wind the knobs fully each way to see if I can reset things. Again I don't know the history of this particular scope and the fact it uses the NF mildot tells me it will be old. I'll test again and if it shifts I'll dismount the scope and bang it then put it back on and see if it still shifts.

So again I don't want to take anything from this test, except that the known good 270 scope/barrel combo did not move.
Click to expand...
Why would your pic rail not move? It mounts to the barrel the same way. Thats very possibly the weak point.
 
Stocky said:
Why would your pic rail not move? It mounts to the barrel the same way. Thats very possibly the weak point.
Click to expand...
Likely failure points being
-Scope in rings
-Rings to base
-Base to Barrel
-Scope
-Barrel in Receiver/stock (I'd say unlikely responsible for 2 mil shift being scopes mounted to the barrel. Maybe if the barrel was seriously touching the stock.)
 
I ran all the knobs on this scope to full extension tonight. I'll re-mount with torque wrench like normal and get out and try this again. If it shifts zero with this setup, then I'll pull the scope, do some side impact on the scope alone and put it back on the rifle to try to isolate if this is the scope or the mount.

Since I have two rifles with identical scopes/mounts and one moved and one didn't I don't have a clear answer what is happening. What made it worse is I had the same scope move in two different style of mounts (Blaser QD and then pic rail). At first I thought the mounting must have shifted, but when it did it with the pic rail/NF rings also this opened up questions about the scope itself that I need to clear up one way or another.
 
Southern Lights said:
I ran all the knobs on this scope to full extension tonight. I'll re-mount with torque wrench like normal and get out and try this again. If it shifts zero with this setup, then I'll pull the scope, do some side impact on the scope alone and put it back on the rifle to try to isolate if this is the scope or the mount.

Since I have two rifles with identical scopes/mounts and one moved and one didn't I don't have a clear answer what is happening. What made it worse is I had the same scope move in two different style of mounts (Blaser QD and then pic rail). At first I thought the mounting must have shifted, but when it did it with the pic rail/NF rings also this opened up questions about the scope itself that I need to clear up one way or another.
Click to expand...
Nice to see a new post to this thread....keep it coming!
 
Southern Lights said:
Ok I got the range and tested my rifle. I had two setups barrels with me:

6.5CM with NXS 2.5-10
270 with NXS 2.5-10

I wanted to test with the 6.5CM so I shot the zero and found it was about 0.75 mil low. This was really irritating to me as I just used this rifle in an NRL match and didn't check zero before the shoot so it was either off before the match, happened during the match, or during transport after. I don't know. But now I'm suspicious before the test even began that something is wrong.

The 6.5CM barrel and this NXS scope are new to me as I just got this setup. The NXS is an old scope with mil-dot reticle and was purchased used so I don't know the history. However it was in good clean condition and I didn't see any signs of abuse.

Regardless, I re-zeroed the rifle an then dropped it from 18" on the left side (parrallax knob) on a ridgerest camping mat on grass. This is a very easy drop equivalent to a rifle tipping over or maybe your pack falling backwards with the rifle strapped to it. There is no reason why any scope should shift with this kind of drop.

The result of this is the impact shifted to the right about 1".

I zeroed again and then did 3X 36" drops on left side. Shifted about 2 mils right.

So now I'm confused because I don't know if it's the rifle, the mount, or the scope. I pull the scope and put it in NF rings on a Gunstar Picrail. Zero and shoot. Then drop. Shifted right again with this new mount.

So I can now say perhaps the mount itself is probably not involved. But it could be the rifle or the scope. In hindsight I should have zeroed the scope, pulled it from the rifle, and then just hit it on the side without it mounted, then put it back on and shot. This would have told me if it was the scope itself. Sadly I didn't think of doing this. However I had something almost as good...

I pulled the 6.5 barrel and put on my trusty 270 barrel into the same stock. This 270 also has an identical mildot 2.5-10 NXS scope. I have never had this rifle shift zero. I have literally had it zeroed for years with the same ammo at times and it never ever moves.

I shoot and check zero. I then go right to 3X 36" left side drops. No shift with the 270.

I also took the rifle out this weekend and shot a fallow at 374m (409y) with a double lung hit with the 270. Elevation and zero have not moved even since this drop and driving a few hundred kilometers with the rifle bouncing around the back of my truck.

So my conclusion is I have no conclusion. I need to check the NXS scope on the 6.5CM setup further to make sure it's not at fault. The impact moving to the right based on left side scope drop is interesting. If I'm thinking this correctly, the mount from left side impact would have moved right (if it moved) which would cause the bullet impact to move left which is not what is happening here. Moving right based on left side impact almost seems like the internals maybe shifted and not the mount.

I leave this to the wisdom of the group to provide input. @Formidilosus View attachment 996436
Click to expand...

Have you tried it w/o the sound moderator?
 
land cruiser said:
Have you tried it w/o the sound moderator?
Click to expand...
No. I had considered pulling the moderator before the testing but wanted to do the entire rifle system out of curiosity. I did check for being tight each time. Next time I may pull it to remove another variable. However for the 270 drop again it was on and didn't shift.
 
Southern Lights said:
Ok I got the range and tested my rifle. I had two setups barrels with me:

6.5CM with NXS 2.5-10
270 with NXS 2.5-10

I wanted to test with the 6.5CM so I shot the zero and found it was about 0.75 mil low. This was really irritating to me as I just used this rifle in an NRL match and didn't check zero before the shoot so it was either off before the match, happened during the match, or during transport after. I don't know. But now I'm suspicious before the test even began that something is wrong.

The 6.5CM barrel and this NXS scope are new to me as I just got this setup. The NXS is an old scope with mil-dot reticle and was purchased used so I don't know the history. However it was in good clean condition and I didn't see any signs of abuse.

Regardless, I re-zeroed the rifle an then dropped it from 18" on the left side (parrallax knob) on a ridgerest camping mat on grass. This is a very easy drop equivalent to a rifle tipping over or maybe your pack falling backwards with the rifle strapped to it. There is no reason why any scope should shift with this kind of drop.

The result of this is the impact shifted to the right about 1".

I zeroed again and then did 3X 36" drops on left side. Shifted about 2 mils right.

So now I'm confused because I don't know if it's the rifle, the mount, or the scope. I pull the scope and put it in NF rings on a Gunstar Picrail. Zero and shoot. Then drop. Shifted right again with this new mount.

So I can now say perhaps the mount itself is probably not involved. But it could be the rifle or the scope. In hindsight I should have zeroed the scope, pulled it from the rifle, and then just hit it on the side without it mounted, then put it back on and shot. This would have told me if it was the scope itself. Sadly I didn't think of doing this. However I had something almost as good...

I pulled the 6.5 barrel and put on my trusty 270 barrel into the same stock. This 270 also has an identical mildot 2.5-10 NXS scope. I have never had this rifle shift zero. I have literally had it zeroed for years with the same ammo at times and it never ever moves.

I shoot and check zero. I then go right to 3X 36" left side drops. No shift with the 270.

I also took the rifle out this weekend and shot a fallow at 374m (409y) with a double lung hit with the 270. Elevation and zero have not moved even since this drop and driving a few hundred kilometers with the rifle bouncing around the back of my truck.

So my conclusion is I have no conclusion. I need to check the NXS scope on the 6.5CM setup further to make sure it's not at fault. The impact moving to the right based on left side scope drop is interesting. If I'm thinking this correctly, the mount from left side impact would have moved right (if it moved) which would cause the bullet impact to move left which is not what is happening here. Moving right based on left side impact almost seems like the internals maybe shifted and not the mount.

I leave this to the wisdom of the group to provide input. @Formidilosus View attachment 996436
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time to post
 
Thinking on this more I was hoping to get a simple test done with nothing shifting. Of course it is never that simple and there are too many variables at play. I now have the worst of both worlds: One setup shows movement and another barrel shows none. This was a frustrating experience and I ran out of time (and ammo) to sort it out.

I need to isolate the variables. Next time I go out I will:

1) Determine if scope is potential issue as again the scope is new to me and I have simply not used it enough (less than 300 rounds now). Again this scope did hit low on the zero check so I need to figure out what is going on if it was bad mounting, or something else. I don't trust the scope/mounting just on this alone.
2) Re-mount scope and verify toque specs. This scope was mounted with about 20 in-lbs on the rings. I may go to 25.
3) Check mount thumb screws and ensure identical tension as best as I can. I'm thinking how I can attach something to the levers to validate torque.
4) Drop without moderator to eliminate possible effects.
5) Shoot and verify.

If the impact moves, then I will probably repeat with the known good NXS from the 270 to see if it also shifts. If it does, then I need work out if it's the mount itself as potential problem, or the mount to barrel interface.

I was not intending to turn this into a scope test. I'm interested in testing the entire system against impacts. But I need to make sure the scope is not the issue and the go up the chain.

I am seriously considering making my own collimator test rig for scopes so I can isolate the scope away from all other factors on impact testing. I did a quick prototype of the concept using two scopes: One scope setup so objective facing the test scope. Test scope aimed at this objective to see if reticle alignment can be validated. In theory, this could be put on a rail and weed out scopes that move on impacts. Might be a fun project. I'll post in another thread if I can get it working.

Bad photos below. Double reticle photo is just showing concept of test and master scope alignment error. You'd dial the scope and get reticles to overlap then do testing and place back in mount to see if it shifted.


IMG_8637.jpg.


Anything else I should consider to pull apart all variables in testing?

My hope is this is simply a mount that moved and if I pay careful attention to re-doing the entire process it works like the 270 version and doesn't shift.
 
You may want to make sure the scope isn't moving in the rings. I had that happen once. That was not a fun one to figure out. I focused on correct torque, and the scope still moved. I figured it out after I painted nail polish around the ring and saw the movement.
 
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