Blackhorn 209 verification

[Arbutusbucks]

Hey Muzz Aficianados,

I have an elk hunt in co and wife drew a muzz hunt nm this year. Basically with some recommendations on this site I picked up a knight ultralight and I am shooting 70gr by weight of bh209 with a Thor 250gr bullet. I know it has been hashed and rehashed before but my 70gr by weight of bh209+250gr bullet is sufficient elk medicine correct?
I have killed 5 elk with my bow but I am new to muzzleloading. I look forward to the extra range but there are more opinions on what works with muzzleloading than archery. Anyway, fire away.

 

[Muleyczy]

I would imagine that would do it, however I personally would go a bit heavier. Colorado you have to use loose powder with conicals if not mistaken. I recently picked up a Knight ultra-lite and it’s set up for Oregon/Idaho and have found 90gr (by volume) of BH and a 420gr No Excuses bullet work well.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I would imagine that would do it, however I personally would go a bit heavier. Colorado you have to use loose powder with conicals if not mistaken. I recently picked up a Knight ultra-lite and it’s set up for Oregon/Idaho and have found 90gr (by volume) of BH and a 420gr No Excuses bullet work well.

Unless something changed 209 primers are not legal in Oregon. Unless you are using a different ignition

 

[sabotloader]

I would imagine that would do it, however I personally would go a bit heavier. Colorado you have to use loose powder with conicals if not mistaken. I recently picked up a Knight ultra-lite and it’s set up for Oregon/Idaho and have found 90gr (by volume) of BH and a 420gr No Excuses bullet work well.

You can not use 209 primers in Idaho either - UNLESS - you are hunting during the regular rifle season.

+ for Idaho you have to use a lead conical. I use Bull Shop .503x400LGP's with 90- to -100 grains if T7-2f by volume, with a MMP sub base under the bullet. That is was formed the cup in the bottom of the bullet. They are awesome!

Recovered from elk shot at 160 yards,

 

[OKHunter84]

I always use 110 grains of BH 209. It doesn't really kick that hard in my CVA Accura MR. I'm not really going out and shooting my muzzleloader for a fun day at the range though. I just shoot it a few times to confirm zero before the season and then go hunting.

Maybe you should shoot it over a chronograph with 70 grains and see how the ballistics look and at what distance you would drop below 800 - 1000 pounds of energy.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

I used your exact load on Whitetail this year. I would not use that setup on elk, the thor penetration was poor (stooped by offside humerus on a Whitetail doe). Any all-lead conical will penetrate much better with little to no difference in temporary or permanent cavity.

 

[OKHunter84]

I used your exact load on Whitetail this year. I would not use that setup on elk, the thor penetration was poor (stooped by offside humerus on a Whitetail doe). Any all-lead conical will penetrate much better with little to no difference in temporary or permanent cavity.
View attachment 568991

That could be somewhat anecdotal though. I shot a 250 grain Barnes TMZ through a large bodied 8 point buck at 256 yards. It stopped just underneath the opposite side hide. I think at 100 yards it would be just fine for elk. I was using 110 grains of BH not 70 grains.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Perhaps. But having handled both, anything that a Whitetail humerus can stop is 100% for sure getting stopped by an elk humerus. So, I would not shoot a 250gr thor over 70 gr bh209 at an elk.

 

[OKHunter84]

Perhaps. But having handled both, anything that a Whitetail humerus can stop is 100% for sure getting stopped by an elk humerus. So, I would not shoot a 250gr thor over 70 gr bh209 at an elk.

Just out of curiosity, were you shooting the polymer tipped one or the hollow point? I think you're right though, I would up the powder charge for elk no matter which bullet.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Tipped

 

[Arbutusbucks]

For reference I am shooting 70gr by weight not volume. According to the website 70gr of bh209 weighed=100gr by volume. I hate the weight /volume crap but here I am.

Researchinstuff’s results do not give me the warm and fuzzys

 

[OKHunter84]

For reference I am shooting 70gr by weight not volume. According to the website 70gr of bh209 weighed=100gr by volume. I hate the weight /volume crap but here I am.

Researchinstuff’s results do not give me the warm and fuzzys

I got you. That is an easy thing for guys to get confused about. I've usually used volume measurements with the brass tubes for muzzleloaders. The BH stated 0.7 for weight versus volume I've found to vary quite a bit when I've weighed and then measured loads. If you look on some of the dedicated muzzleloader websites there's a lot of discussion on this. I feel like weight should be more consistent though.

 

[Muleyczy]

You can not use 209 primers in Idaho either - UNLESS - you are hunting during the regular rifle season.

+ for Idaho you have to use a lead conical. I use Bull Shop .503x400LGP's with 9- to -100 grains if T7-2f, with a NNP sub base under the bullet. That is was formed the cup in the bottom of the bullet. They are awesome!

Recovered from elk shot at 160 yards,

I have the western conversion kit with a musket nipple using 1081 caps.

 

[Muleyczy]

You can not use 209 primers in Idaho either - UNLESS - you are hunting during the regular rifle season.

+ for Idaho you have to use a lead conical. I use Bull Shop .503x400LGP's with 9- to -100 grains if T7-2f, with a NNP sub base under the bullet. That is was formed the cup in the bottom of the bullet. They are awesome!

Recovered from elk shot at 160 yards,

@sabotloader are you shooting this load out of your Knight?

 

[2five7]

For reference I am shooting 70gr by weight not volume. According to the website 70gr of bh209 weighed=100gr by volume. I hate the weight /volume crap but here I am.

Researchinstuff’s results do not give me the warm and fuzzys

Have you double checked your weight vs volume numbers? I did last year for a hunt, and the conversion provided by BH were not accurate at all.

 

[sabotloader]

@sabotloader are you shooting this load out of your Knight?

Yes, I have shot that from both a Knight Ultra-Lite and a Mountaineer.

I have the western conversion kit with a musket nipple using 1081 caps.

Then you will not be able to reliably ignite BH-209. Percussion cap ignition is required in Idaho during ML sesaon.

The 1081 will work very well with T7 and other BP subs, other than BH.

I prefer to use a #11 Mag cap, but certainly a the 1081 will do the job.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

.7 is pretty close on my bh209.

 

[Arbutusbucks]

Have you double checked your weight vs volume numbers? I did last year for a hunt, and the conversion provided by BH were not accurate at all.

I checked my weighed powder @ 70grains. In the tubes level was about 95 grains. So not far off from 100, I have just heard that the tubes are not reliable indicators, which is why I weighed in the first place.

 

[ElDiablito]

This has been discussed at length on dedicated muzzleloading forums. The various lots of BH209 vary in weight. So the .7 conversion factor may have held true many years ago, now days, it doesn’t for most of us. Depends on your measure and method of volume measuring. For me, for example, using lot 41, 100 gr by volume weighs about 76 gr by weight.

So if you’re weighing out 84 grW, you’re probably not shooting the max 120 grV. Does it matter? No. Just be consistent with how ever you measure your powder. The rub comes when you switch lots of BH209. If you’re only measuring by weight, and the weight varies by lot, you will see a different velocity with a different lot. That’s why Hodgdon says to measure by volume only.

The other thing you can do is volume measure out 10 or more loads (110 grV for example) from a given lot of BH209 and then average the weights. Then weigh out the charges if you want to do that. When you buy a new (lot) bottle of powder, average the weights of your 110 grV load and use that weight measurement for your charges with that bottle. Here’s a video on that process.

 

[ElDiablito]

I know it has been hashed and rehashed before but my 70gr by weight of bh209+250gr bullet is sufficient elk medicine correct?

A 250 gr bullet is sufficient but not ideal for elk. I’ve killed or been on a number of muzzy elk kills. I’d recommend a bullet of at least 300 grains. And 70 grW is a light charge. I’d shoot the max load (120 grV) if it were me. Elk are tough.