Blackhorn 209 in stock

[5MilesBack]

Get some CCI Magnum primers.

 

[sabotloader]

An added note!

Which primer may work the best and most consistent is really tied directly to your breech plug and the outside temps. Western Powders always recommended Magnum primers because they had no idea what type of rifle or breech plug your rifle might have. And their whole goal was to have the powder go bang when the primer ignited it.

I really do not like to use Mag primers! they fill the flash channel more quickly with debris and wear the flash hole faster than a normal primer. Yet! there are rifles with breech plugs that are not really conducive to BH powder, so the safe thing is using a Mag primer.

I personally use Winchester W209's because they fit my Knight breech plugs better. but, as mentioned with the right BP all 209 Shotgun primers can work. also be aware there are 209 primers ot there specifically designed for Muzzleloaders - this are not the best bet with BH at all.

 

[GCMan]

I have not been able to find the CCI Magnum primers or Federal 209A primers so far. I think the RIO primer should do the job but at the point I have zero confidence in anything working. Just for reference, I'm using the CVA Blackhorn Breech Plug with a very detailed cleaning process. I would probably use the Federal 209A primer when I can locate some but I will try the RIO primer next which I have read may one of best primers for the BH209.

suggested primers Federal 209A or CCI Magnum 209

RIO G600 or another good European primer Chiddett

 

[GCMan]

I do like the cleanup with BH209 (much cleaner than the Triple 777 FFFG) but if I can't get consistent ignition, I can't use it. My failure rate right now is 10% or 1 out of 10. Maybe 1 out of 100 failure (1% failure) I might start considering it in a hunting situation. I prefer .1% (1 out of 1000 failures). What is an acceptable failure rate for you?

 

[sabotloader]

0 failures is my acceptable rate!

I think I know that the standard CVA plug is really questionable with BH-209, but I really thought their BH plug was suppose to be a good plug. I am not a CVA person so I can not really tell you what the problem might be.

I would ask you are you hand drilling the the flas channel in the plug out with drill bit? Residue in that area of the plug WILL cause ignition problems.

Can not really tell you the proper size bit to use in a CVA plug.

 

[GCMan]

I like that answer!!! zero %. I could live with 1 out of 1000. Here's the plug I'm using ( see pics) and you see the three tools I use. I soak and then scrape everything in sight. Repeat. Use my air compressor to get dry and blow every thing out remaining. The air compressor weights 70 pounds with the hose. That's going to be a pain to carry up a mountain.

 

[sabotloader]

What size bit is that you are using? And as an added note do not put anything through the flash hole other than liquid or air. The flash hole errodes fast enough as it is.

Can not really tell but the bit looks small to me.

Once drilled clean you should be able to shot 10-15 shots without the need of cleaning again.

 

[GCMan]

it's the smallest bit (1/16 inch) I have but it does not fit thru the flash hole. I use the homemade wire thing to clear the flash hole and compressed air. I could use 1/8 bit but I don't think that would be an issue either way. The smaller bit allows me to get closer to the flash hole and remove more crud. Just used 1/8 bit too and didn't see any additional crud come out. Looks pretty clean to me.

 

[sabotloader]

it's the smallest bit (1/16 inch) I have but it does not fit thru the flash hole. I use the homemade wire thing to clear the flash hole and compressed air. I could use 1/8 bit but I don't think that would be an issue either way. The smaller bit allows me to get closer to the flash hole and remove more crud. Just used 1/8 bit too and didn't see any additional crud come out. Looks pretty clean to me.

You do not want to put anything through the "flash hole" only the "flash channel" Use a 1/8" drill bit to clean the channel. You might have a hard time turning the 1/8" bit in the flash channel, but it probably really needs to be cleaned.

What bullet and sabot are you shooting?

 

[GCMan]

Nosler bore driver 290 grain. 110 gr BH209 by volume loaded thru the top (muzzle) and compressed with all my weight 170 lbs.

 

[sabotloader]

Nosler bore driver 290 grain. 110 gr BH209 by volume loaded thru the top (muzzle) and compressed with all my weight 170 lbs.

OK - I think you meant Hornady Bore Driver. When you are pushing it down the bore - how tight is it? Placing it on the powder with you weight is really a good thought. BH is sometimes temperamental in that if it doesn't feel pressure on the powder it sometimes will not ignite.

Is your ram rod marked or have you measured how far it sticks of the barrel when you compress the bullet and the powder?

110 gr. V - is a really good load for that bullet.

Just out of curiosity do you have any sabot bullet combinations on hand?

just checking off some things

mike

 

[GCMan]

Stand corrected. Hornady Bore Driver.

I do not. No plans on using a sabot. I like the bore driver. The one part of this puzzle I did figure out. It's a very tight fit and I'm literal getting all 170 lbs body weight on the rod during compression. I have not measured the rod length remaining but I'm being consistent with the compression. I have all my weight on the rod in the final push when seating the bullet. I might able to compression it harder with a hammer but I don't think that's advised.

Has anyone else had issues or success with the Hornady bore driver and BH209 combination? It's seem like a great, tight fitting and accurate bullet to me. Did have the same issues using the Thompson / Center Maxi-ball 320 grain so I don't feel like the Hornady bore driver is the issue.

 

[5MilesBack]

1/8" bit fits the CVA flash channel.

 

[sabotloader]

Stand corrected. Hornady Bore Driver.

I do not. No plans on using a sabot. I like the bore driver. The one part of this puzzle I did figure out. It's a very tight fit and I'm literal getting all 170 lbs body weight on the rod during compression.

Well that answers my one question if it is that tight going down the bore, then compresssion is probably not the problem at all. OK since it is that tight how do you make sure it is all the way down on the powder stack?

I have not measured the rod length remaining but I'm being consistent with the compression. I have all my weight on the rod in the final push when seating the bullet. I might able to compression it harder with a hammer but I don't think that's advised.

Nope! no hammer needed or wanted!

Has anyone else had issues or success with the Hornady bore driver and BH209 combination? It's seem like a great, tight fitting and accurate bullet to me. Did have the same issues using the Thompson / Center Maxi-ball 320 grain so I don't feel like the Hornady bore driver is the issue.

With this, then I would fall back on the breech plug!

Do you, would you want to try an experament? Shoot 3 primers before loading any bullet after cleaning the rifle or the breech plug. Hold the muzzle a couple of inches above the ground and shoot a primer. Verify that it ignites and that you see material on the ground move from the moving air created by the ignition. Load up and shoot a really bullet. After 3 shots do the primer shot only to verify the BP is not plugged. Relaoad and contine shooting - 3 shots and a primer check!

Now... the next part when you do get a non-fire situation. Keep the muzzle down range for a minute or so. Then see if you can move the bullet with the rod back down the barrel until it feels seated again. Then carefully remove your breech plug. Pour the powder out of the breech area and push the bullet out the breech. Reinstall the BP and pop a primer does it move the material on the ground or is the breech plug plugged?

O shoot you know what should have asked off the top... when you get a misfire - do you here the primer go off or when you remove the misfire's spent primer has it ignited?

I honestly have not experianced mis fires shooting BH. Well unless I screwed up by talking and loading at the same time - bad idea! I know...

Check your PM messages wen you can!

 

[GMB54-120]

BH209 plug does have a 1/8" flame channel. That is the size bit you should be using to clean it.

How dirty are you primers after firing?

If they are dirty the bandade fix is a 6.5mm OD x 4.5mm ID x 1mm thickness o-ring IN the primer pocket. They last about 20 shots or so. You can buy them for about $6/100 at Mcmasters. Getting all the fire to BH209 solves lots of headaches. Western includes a similar o-ring with their BH209 plug.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[GCMan]

Blackhorn 209 and non-sabot bullets not an ethical combination (READ THIS !!!)

This guy seems likes an expert on this subject and is speaking from my experiences with BH209 so far.

 

[ENCORE]

Blackhorn 209 and non-sabot bullets not an ethical combination (READ THIS !!!)

This guy seems likes an expert on this subject and is speaking from my experiences with BH209 so far.

He's full of it. Shooting bullet to bore and with BH209 is easy and efficient. All one needs to do is know what they're doing in the first place. I know who the guy is, and he does have a good product for the old rifles, but I don't think he's on the ball with this.

If you're going to shoot bullet to bore using BH209, I highly suggest either a wool or veggie wad. The bullet should load in a fouled barrel at around 20#.

I haven't used a sabot in years and the sabot is the weakest link. We had a match at Camp Atterbury, IN, back in June. We were shooting 120grs VOLUME of BH209 and bullet to bore (no sabots). The ranges were 800yds, 900yds and 1,000yds. I actually took 1st place shooting BH209, using a veggie wad and 350gr XLD bullets.

 

[GCMan]

Congrats.

Thanks for the info. Good to hear other's perspective. Any misfires using this technique? Do you lubricate the wad? I don't think I will. I will try a dry wad.

 

[ENCORE]

I've never had a miss fire or hang fire. I've shot BH from countless TC Encore platform rifles. I've shot it from an Ultimate Firearms BP Xpress after changing out the OEM ignition system. I currently shoot it in my 45cal custom with modules. Never had a FF or HF with any rifle.

Here's a video showing the ignition of BH after the rifle set in -3° for 21hrs.

 

[GMB54-120]

Ive shot so many bullets that load easier than sabots its not even funny. The vast majority of BH209 issues are user error and/or poorly designed/cleaned plugs.

Load a poly wad sometime and tell me how much daylight you can see around it with the plug out. They seal almost as good as a sabot when fired. Seal even better when unfired. I can see daylight around a sabot....you wont see hardly any with a poly wad because they are larger OD than any sabot.