Bitcoin

[Serrano]

Just don't try to make it an alternative currency.

I think it maintains its appeal due its value to tax cheats, crime syndicates and fraudsters.

 

[Silver Wings]

Just don't try to make it an alternative currency.

I think it maintains its appeal due its value to tax cheats, crime syndicates and fraudsters.

Preach, boomer!
We would never want an alternative to the fiat that gets more diluted and less valuable with every passing day

 

[RockAndSage]

Just don't try to make it an alternative currency.

It already is, along with a number of other crypto currencies - on top of being considered a commodity.

What's happening in the crypto space is a complete restructuring of the global financial order - various ledgers and their tokens are doing for value-flow what the internet did for information flow. It's that stark, and that big.

Japan's way ahead on institutionalization, but just in the last few months there's been a massive leap in test-runs and adoptions by thousands of financial institutions globally, especially in Europe and the US.

There is something like 27 Trillion USD locked up globally with banks doing international business, in accounts that are set aside to settle international payments - called "nostro/vostro" accounts. It takes literal days for a single transaction to take place across the SWIFT system, which is the information flow equivalent of an encrypted telegram. It's archaic compared to these blockchain ledger systems, and the currencies/tokens they use. But that 27 Trillion - it's damn near useless locked up in those accounts, in terms of it's liquidity value. It's like sitting on piles of gold, unable to sell it off or put it to use.

Right now, it's estimated that for every 1 billion USD in global financial transaction an institution conducts, using crypto/blockchain as their value-transmission system gains them $50 million over what they can do today.

I think it maintains its appeal due its value to tax cheats, crime syndicates and fraudsters.

There are essentially 3 types of crypto currencies: meme coins, "store of value" coins, and "utility" tokens.

The meme coins are where the fraudsters live large. But the tax cheats and crime syndicates...it's getting increasingly difficult for them to use store-of-value or any crypto for illicit business, other than conning with meme coins, because it's not as anonymous as they think it is. The blockchain ledger technology knows were every fraction of a coin is, in every "wallet". The only question is who holds the wallet at any given point. But when that crypto surfaces on an exchange (an online market/bank, essentially), FBI and other agencies have had that crypto seized, just by getting a warrant and requiring it of the exchanges. The big thing to know about established store-of-value tokens like bitcoin, is governments are now buying them up, and using them as strategic assets. The US government is about to change the game on these entirely, with Trump's multi-billion dollar Crypto Reserve.

The utility tokens though - think of it as the energy/fuel that global finance, commerce, and even AI information flow are increasingly running on. That's where the action will be - the only thing that will slow the value-growth of those types of crypto down once they get adopted, is broad slowdowns in the global economy, as "electricity" demand slows. But then it will speed up again, and be needed more. Right now, several of these are at the developmental and adoption stages of Microsoft and Apple back in the 1980s - they are months or a couple of years from a surge in value, as the global financial system is restructured intentionally to use them.

 

[ozyclint]

There will only ever be 21,000,000 bitcoin, whereas we print dollars out the ass. Once governments and major corporations started getting involved, that told me all I needed to know, get on board before it’s too late.

Are you saying you got on board once governments and major corporations got involved because you think that validates bitcoin or because you wanted to get in before they corrupt bitcoin too?

 

[Blacktail_]

Are you saying you got on board once governments and major corporations got involved because you think that validates bitcoin or because you wanted to get in before they corrupt bitcoin too?

I have been buying since 2018 so I was on board before that, but I do think that is validating to bitcoin. Harder to corrupt something that has a finite supply and anyone can track the blockchain.

 

[ozyclint]

...................... and anyone can track the blockchain.

sounds decentrilized...

 

[Blacktail_]

Yeah it is exactly no governing body creating more every minute like fiat currency.

 

[Blacktail_]

The blockchain also isn’t advertising names and addresses lol it is a randomized wallet number, much more secure than a bank transaction.

 

[Blacktail_]

Just don't try to make it an alternative currency.

I think it maintains its appeal due its value to tax cheats, crime syndicates and fraudsters.

Nothing is used for crime more than Dollars but you’re glad to get paid in those still

 

[Firestone]

Has anyone bought bitcoin through an ETF? Sounds like the two downsides is someone else is holding your actual investment " like a stock" and you cant sell it 24/7. I am planning on buying a sizeable chunck and just holding till it doubles. An ETF seems pretty simple

 

[Blacktail_]

Has anyone bought bitcoin through an ETF? Sounds like the two downsides is someone else is holding your actual investment " like a stock" and you cant sell it 24/7. I am planning on buying a sizeable chunck and just holding till it doubles. An ETF seems pretty simple

I usually just opt for actual bitcoin, however an etf is great for exposure in a Roth or 401k. Have some MSTR but no bitcoin etf’s.

 

[fmyth]

Has anyone bought bitcoin through an ETF? Sounds like the two downsides is someone else is holding your actual investment " like a stock" and you cant sell it 24/7. I am planning on buying a sizeable chunck and just holding till it doubles. An ETF seems pretty simple

I have IBIT and FBTC in my IRA and Roth IRA. I feel pretty safe having Blackrock and Fidelity holding my BTC.

 

[Poser]

Has anyone bought bitcoin through an ETF? Sounds like the two downsides is someone else is holding your actual investment " like a stock" and you cant sell it 24/7. I am planning on buying a sizeable chunck and just holding till it doubles. An ETF seems pretty simple

I have FBTC and BTC (grayscale) in my IRAs. I also have Grayscale ETFs for Ethereum and Canary XRP ETFs.

 

[RockAndSage]

Has anyone bought bitcoin through an ETF? Sounds like the two downsides is someone else is holding your actual investment " like a stock" and you cant sell it 24/7. I am planning on buying a sizeable chunck and just holding till it doubles. An ETF seems pretty simple

Depending on the size of the purchase, it might be a good idea to consider breaking it up a bit, between a couple of ETFs, with another chunk on a cold wallet like a Trezor. It distributes the risk a bit, and what's on the cold wallet is more or less instantly accessible if you need quick cash, by selling on an exchange.

One of the nice things about the ETFs is you can get into an index of cryptos and crypto-related companies, such as miners, exchanges, or companies that build data-centers and infrastructure related to mining. Schwab's Crypto Thematic and the Bitwise 10 Crypto Index Fund might be worth looking into if that sounds appealing.

 

[Fowl Play]

The main downside of a Bitcoin ETF is that wash sale rules still apply to them, unlike directly holding Bitcoin as far as I can tell.

 

[Silver Wings]

I was watching this interview of Kevin Warsh, who is likely to succeed Powell as Fed chairman later this year, when Bitcoin came up. I was pleasantly surprised by his response. Mind you it’s a minute out of an hour long interview, but it gives a brief look at his macro view of BTC.
Whatever our thoughts on the federal reserve, it’s the world we live in and the chairman’s take counts for something.
55:00 if you’re interested

 

[RockAndSage]

I was watching this interview of Kevin Warsh, who is likely to succeed Powell as Fed chairman later this year, when Bitcoin came up. I was pleasantly surprised by his response. Mind you it’s a minute out of an hour long interview, but it gives a brief look at his macro view of BTC.
Whatever our thoughts on the federal reserve, it’s the world we live in and the chairman’s take counts for something.
55:00 if you’re interested

Great interview, appreciated it.

IIRC, there's been claims online that Warsh owns something like $750k in bitcoin and ETH, but it's never been verified. He's said enough publicly, however, about crypto and finance that it seems very clear he understands quite well that everything's getting tokenized over the next decade or so, and moving to crypto ledgers. President Trump's world took a complete 180 on crypto after he got debanked in 2020/21, which is why he and is family have moved so heavily into it in so many different ways. He's absolutely serious when he says he intends to make America the crypto capital of the world, and what he's talking about is keeping command of the global financial system in doing so. There's no way he had conversations with Warsh in vetting him for the Fed chair job, that didn't involve feeling him out on the tokenization of the US and global financial systems.

 

[Beendare]

I would have thought institutionalizing Bitcoin would have helped with its legitimacy. If the price can hold....maybe. but if it starts dropping those outfits can dump it in milliseconds.

Then we don't hear about it until after they have sold, like this one;
Bitdeer (NASDAQ: BTDR), one of the largest Bitcoin miners by computational capacity, has fully liquidated its corporate Bitcoin holdings.

The company notified in an X post on Feb. 21 that it sold not just newly mined coins but also the remainder of its reserves.

While miners routinely sell a portion of production to cover operating costs, completely clearing out treasury holdings is far less common.
_________________________

Trump's semi support should be good for Bitcoin...but if it tanks or they pivot to USD backed...then all bets are off. It seems like a falling knife right now thats trying to find support.

 

[RockAndSage]

I would have thought institutionalizing Bitcoin would have helped with its legitimacy. If the price can hold....maybe. but if it starts dropping those outfits can dump it in milliseconds.

Then we don't hear about it until after they have sold, like this one;
Bitdeer (NASDAQ: BTDR), one of the largest Bitcoin miners by computational capacity, has fully liquidated its corporate Bitcoin holdings.

The company notified in an X post on Feb. 21 that it sold not just newly mined coins but also the remainder of its reserves.

While miners routinely sell a portion of production to cover operating costs, completely clearing out treasury holdings is far less common.
_________________________

Trump's semi support should be good for Bitcoin...but if it tanks or they pivot to USD backed...then all bets are off. It seems like a falling knife right now thats trying to find support.

Unless I were a trader or in imminent, dire need of money, this isn't an issue at all. There's just far too much institutional money invested in it - they'll continue to buy the dip as long as it keeps going down. Crypto is something people need to think of for the long term, and not sell during/right after a market crash. It's going to get worse over the next 6 months, but by 2027 it'll pick back up quite a bit.

 

[2531usmc]

Crypto/tokens are the future. Question is will BTC dominate or dollar par prevail?

If the institutions lose confidence in BTC, they will pump it to sell to retail buyers. Once the retail investors begin to lose confidence, it’s game over because the retail investors are always the last to know.

And I think the BTC vibe has shifted. 6 months ago, the story was how high will it go now the common discussion is how low can it go….where is support?

Not that anybody really cares what I think, but I think BTC now is a game for the professionals. Simply too dangerous for the little guys.