Bitcoin

[Poser]

I think we are all in agreement that the BTC blockchain software algorithm is extraordinarily complex and sophisticated to support the BTC environment

But does anyone really believe that a single guy, Satoshi Nakamoto, created the software, debugged the software, and stress tested it in a real world environment?

Or do you believe a software algorithm that sophisticated came frame a govt agency (think NSA) or a massive software developer (Microsoft, Google).

What seems more plausible? Massive govt/corporate agency or a single guy or couple of guys writing code?

If you dont know the answer to this question, how can you possibly trust BTC with your family’s future?

I think you're confusing trusting a person with trusting the math. The entire point of Bitcoin is that we don't need to know who wrote it. The code is open-source. It has been audited by the world's best cryptographers, computer scientists, and hackers for 15 years now. And, the V1 version did have bugs in it which were improrved on overtime by the community.

And, why would the NSA create a sovereign, censorship-resistant currency that directly threatens the hegemony of the US dollar? If the NSA built Bitcoin, it may just be the greatest self-own in the history of underground espionage. Don't you think it’s far more plausible that it was built by a cyberpunk who wanted to separate money from state, rather than the state trying to destroy its own monetary control.

Occam's Razor: The explanation with the fewest necessary assumptions is usually the correct one.

 

[IdahoElk]

I think we are all in agreement that the BTC blockchain software algorithm is extraordinarily complex and sophisticated to support the BTC environment

But does anyone really believe that a single guy, Satoshi Nakamoto, created the software, debugged the software, and stress tested it in a real world environment?

Or do you believe a software algorithm that sophisticated came frame a govt agency (think NSA) or a massive software developer (Microsoft, Google).

What seems more plausible? Massive govt/corporate agency or a single guy or couple of guys writing code?

If you dont know the answer to this question, how can you possibly trust BTC with your family’s future?

They used BC as beta testing for

I think you're confusing trusting a person with trusting the math. The entire point of Bitcoin is that we don't need to know who wrote it. The code is open-source. It has been audited by the world's best cryptographers, computer scientists, and hackers for 15 years now. And, the V1 version did have bugs in it which were improrved on overtime by the community.

And, why would the NSA create a sovereign, censorship-resistant currency that directly threatens the hegemony of the US dollar? If the NSA built Bitcoin, it may just be the greatest self-own in the history of underground espionage. Don't you think it’s far more plausible that it was built by a cyberpunk who wanted to separate money from state, rather than the state trying to destroy its own monetary control.

Occam's Razor: The explanation with the fewest necessary assumptions is usually the correct one.

You don't think Bitcoin is the gov. beta testing to replace the dying dollar?

 

[MountainTracker]

I think we are all in agreement that the BTC blockchain software algorithm is extraordinarily complex and sophisticated to support the BTC environment

But does anyone really believe that a single guy, Satoshi Nakamoto, created the software, debugged the software, and stress tested it in a real world environment?

Or do you believe a software algorithm that sophisticated came frame a govt agency (think NSA) or a massive software developer (Microsoft, Google).

What seems more plausible? Massive govt/corporate agency or a single guy or couple of guys writing code?

If you dont know the answer to this question, how can you possibly trust BTC with your family’s future?

Aliens

The alternative is to put your trust in a massive gov agency run by a couple of guys printing all day, who don’t care about your family’s future.

Which one seems more crazy?

Idk if one, two or a thousand guys created it but I do know it’s based on energy, math, and is limited. All three of those things can’t be faked.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fmyth]

Personally, I think what is propping up Bitcoin is;
1) the Trump clan thinks they can make money off of it,
2)The greater fool theory
3) sure financial companies are getting into it...but not in the way it implies. They make a % from Crypto products sold. They can utilize highly sophisticated trading strategies to make money from it that puts the avg individual is at the mercy of these very savvy traders- like the recent story of huge $88 million gains in one day from shorting it.

It's been a huge win for the few that were in early- can't argue with that....but is it like the guy that wins a big jackpot then gambles it all back? Of course the lucky few with profits are going to talk it up to the next guy- it's in their best interest.....see #2.

What about the guy that bought it at $90,000 or thereabouts? Sure you might make money but just understand the risk is off the chart.

Risk is the price you pay for returns. If you want low risk you get low returns. Many of us want high returns and are willing to accept higher risk.

 

[Poser]

You don't think Bitcoin is the gov. beta testing to replace the dying dollar?

No, I don't. If the US Govt replaces the dollar with a cyrpto, it won't be a tool for freedom like Bitcoin. It will be the opposite: A tool for surveillance and monetary policy. And, if Bitcoin is a government beta test, it's the worst designed beta test in history of all civilization because it tests the one thing the government hates: Fixed Supply. You can't have Quantitative Easing with fixed supply. You can't print currency to fund wars with a fixed supply. You'd have to be really optimistic about the intentions of any administration who wants to give up all of that power.

A currency that replaces the dollar would realistically look more like Venmo, but the Federal Reserve would be the Admin with a "Freeze Account" button. The replacement currency would just be a digital version of the USD. It would likely be issued directly by the Federal Reserve, bypassing commercial banks in some ways.

But, if you do believe the US Gove't intends to replace USD with Bitcoin, then I'd think it wise to be stacked with Bitcoin, otherwise, its 1863 and you're sitting on a stack of Confederate 2 dollar bills.

 

[Historybuff]

Personally, I think what is propping up Bitcoin is;
1) the Trump clan thinks they can make money off of it,
2)The greater fool theory
3) sure financial companies are getting into it...but not in the way it implies. They make a % from Crypto products sold. They can utilize highly sophisticated trading strategies to make money from it that puts the avg individual is at the mercy of these very savvy traders- like the recent story of huge $88 million gains in one day from shorting it.

It's been a huge win for the few that were in early- can't argue with that....but is it like the guy that wins a big jackpot then gambles it all back? Of course the lucky few with profits are going to talk it up to the next guy- it's in their best interest.....see #2.

What about the guy that bought it at $90,000 or thereabouts? Sure you might make money but just understand the risk is off the chart.

Nice try Blackrock agent. Im not selling my bitcoin

 

[Silver Wings]

It's been a huge win for the few that were in early- can't argue with that...

Ummm…it’s been a huge win for every single person who’s bought and held for at least 4 years since inception.

 

[fmyth]

Ripple CEO predicts Bitcoin will hit 180k in 2026. That's a 100% gain from today.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ripple-ceo-predicts-bitcoin-hit-184118491.html

 

[pacoalcracker]

I personally think bitcoin hit it's top and won't see another new high. Just too many newer places to gamble your money and make nice money, or just to play the game if that is your thing. I think that "miracle" get rich quick scheme seen it's best days. Lots of people trying to save it...but I don't think so. Let's wait and see.

 

[fmyth]

I personally think bitcoin hit it's top and won't see another new high. Just too many newer places to gamble your money and make nice money, or just to play the game if that is your thing. I think that "miracle" get rich quick scheme seen it's best days. Lots of people trying to save it...but I don't think so. Let's wait and see.

Why do you think the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth funds recently invested 1 Billion dollars in a Bitcoin ETF?

What about the Harvard Universities Endowment fund tripling their Bitcoin ETF investment to 443M over the last few months?

Bank of America's wealth management divisions, including Merrill and Private Bank, oversee trillions in client assets. Last week they announced that their clients should invest 1-4% of their portfolio in BTC ETF's.

Last week Vanguard decided to allow its clients to invest in BTC ETF's. They hold 11 Trillion dollars.

I've never viewed Bitcoin as a "miracle get rich quick scheme" but it has returned an average of 102% per year for the last 14 years.

 

[Historybuff]

I personally think bitcoin hit it's top and won't see another new high. Just too many newer places to gamble your money and make nice money, or just to play the game if that is your thing. I think that "miracle" get rich quick scheme seen it's best days. Lots of people trying to save it...but I don't think so. Let's wait and see.

CORRECTION: Bitcoin is a "mircle" save your money quick scheme. HFSP

 

[Sacrvrrat72]

It’s funny, I was about to pull the trigger and buy 1 bitcoin, but listening to the arguments defending it have me really questioning my decision. I’ll probably still buy, but more as a fomo bet than value. Can’t have bitcoin hitting a million and not own any.

 

[fmyth]

It’s funny, I was about to pull the trigger and buy 1 bitcoin, but listening to the arguments defending it have me really questioning my decision. I’ll probably still buy, but more as a fomo bet than value. Can’t have bitcoin hitting a million and not own any.

You were about to invest 90k in BTC but reading some positive news and facts posted here (all verifiable) you are now questioning your decision?

 

[Sacrvrrat72]

You were about to invest 90k in BTC but reading some positive news and facts posted here (all verifiable) you are now questioning your decision?

Yeah, I always seem much more comfortable investing in things other most other investors are negative on. Going to have to look more intk the 4 year cycle and I will probably get more comfortable with it.

I love this thread because it gives a lot of ideas to look into and figure out what works for me.
I have some constraints when it comes to investing due to my job so I can’t always invest like some others.

 

[MountainTracker]

Yeah, I always seem much more comfortable investing in things other most other investors are negative on. Going to have to look more intk the 4 year cycle and I will probably get more comfortable with it.

I love this thread because it gives a lot of ideas to look into and figure out what works for me.
I have some constraints when it comes to investing due to my job so I can’t always invest like some others.

If you’re not ready to hold for at least 4 years you’re going to be questioning your decision. Read and learn, ask questions, find answers. Hint it’s the fiat system that’s broke, which is why btc and other assets are so important for future growth.

Never in the history of btc have nation states and large corporations and companies invested in btc. The corporations alone hold $11 T AUM.

As far as negative, just read through this thread and you see lots of negative comments.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Beendare]

Risk is the price you pay for returns. If you want low risk you get low returns. Many of us want high returns and are willing to accept higher risk.

Look I don't know your situation but I can tell you that I have been burned bad by risk and my guess is you haven't been- Yet.

My lesson was in the early 80's with all of my savings in a management company Mackentyre recommended as one of the best in the business- by big finance companies. The short story is they had me in many fast growing companies that turned out to be inflating their earnings- it was all a mirage. World com was one. I lost 50% of my savings which at the time was a blow....but also a lesson in risk that I still utilize today.

It seems you want to risk it all...which is fine your money...but how would you feel if you lost 90% of it in a week? No big deal? What assets back up Bitcoin and keep it from going to zero?

Yeah, it's easy to be sitting on a pile of cash and roll the dice...until it isn't.
All I'm saying is thats not an investment strategy....managing risk is not important...until it is.

I know a guy- finance mgr at one of the Truck dealers I use....he had $12 million in crypto from a couple thousand dollar investment. He was going to retire.... live in Tahiti...blah blah but he held it a little too long....it literally went to zero in a couple days. IMO, that guy goes down as one of the stupidest MF's in history- wrecked his life, all he does is complain about it- when he could have taken some off the table and looked like a smart dude.

 

[Ten Bears]

For the crypto guys that know a lot more than myself I have some questions. Sounds negative but definitely not coming from a negative stance on BTC.

I have been wondering about stagnation and loss of interest from the retail buyer side with the price of entry being so high.

When you start talking about 100K plus to buy a single BTC I think it will scare off average buyers and leave these whales and hedges to purchase. Sure there are the ETFs but the appeal on BTC besides the blockchain benefits (which I am sure most buyers don’t understand anyways) is the opportunity to make multiple Xs on the investment with some moderate level of patience. At 100K plus how much meat is left to risk that much.

With the supply and halving dwindling do you think that will change what does seem like a 4 year (election) cycle ? We should be entering “winter” soon correct with a bit more of a drop ?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I have been wondering about stagnation and loss of interest from the retail buyer side with the price of entry being so high.

When you start talking about 100K plus to buy a single BTC I think it will scare off average buyers and leave these whales and hedges to purchase.

The price of entry is currently $0.0009. Bitcoin can be transacted in fractions as small as 0.00000001. The base unit of bitcoin is a satoshi (often abbreviated “sat”), and there are 100 million sats per bitcoin (same concept as 100 pennies in a dollar).

 

[Historybuff]

 

[fmyth]

Look I don't know your situation but I can tell you that I have been burned bad by risk and my guess is you haven't been- Yet.

My lesson was in the early 80's with all of my savings in a management company Mackentyre recommended as one of the best in the business- by big finance companies. The short story is they had me in many fast growing companies that turned out to be inflating their earnings- it was all a mirage. World com was one. I lost 50% of my savings which at the time was a blow....but also a lesson in risk that I still utilize today.

It seems you want to risk it all...which is fine your money...but how would you feel if you lost 90% of it in a week? No big deal? What assets back up Bitcoin and keep it from going to zero?

Yeah, it's easy to be sitting on a pile of cash and roll the dice...until it isn't.
All I'm saying is thats not an investment strategy....managing risk is not important...until it is.

I know a guy- finance mgr at one of the Truck dealers I use....he had $12 million in crypto from a couple thousand dollar investment. He was going to retire.... live in Tahiti...blah blah but he held it a little too long....it literally went to zero in a couple days. IMO, that guy goes down as one of the stupidest MF's in history- wrecked his life, all he does is complain about it- when he could have taken some off the table and looked like a smart dude.

I lost my life savings during the dot.com crash of 2000 because I was using margin in my brokerage account and got auto liquidated. It was a learning experience. Five years later I purchased business and within 2 years lost everything including my house and car. I learned a lot about commercial leases. My next business venture was successful and enabled me to become semi retired at 40 years old. I retired completely one year ago at 57. If I lost everything I have invested in BTC I would still be fine as I have no debt, no dependents, 2 paid for homes and a decent portfolio of stocks and ETF's that are not related to BTC or crypto in anyway. I also have the experience and knowledge to start up a new business in my old industry at any time.

Lots of crypto shitcoins have made millionaires and then gone bust. Bitcoin has a 15 year track record of returning an average of 102% per year and is backed by energy.

I would never recommend anyone put all their money into a single investment let alone BTC.