Bird Dog Expense

[WRO]

I am not very seasoned on this because I'm only one year in, so I don't know if I agree or disagree with you! That said, one observation I've made is that there are a lot of people that are more interested in their dogs getting accolades than they are actually getting out there to hunt wild birds as much as possible

I don't know about that..

I run with alot of guys that trial and do nastra, most of them hunt 30+ days a season..

My dogs spend 60 days a year on wild birds in both training and hunting, there's no better teacher.

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[mporter012]

I don't know about that..

I run with alot of guys that trial and do nastra, most of them hunt 30+ days a season..

My dogs spend 60 days a year on wild birds in both training and hunting, there's no better teacher.

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Just an observation. I also live in an area where it's gonna be more likely just bc the lack of actually birds to hunt

 

[Cant hit em]

We as a family are in the process now. We have a Lab pup 8 weeks old and are DIY training. We are not wanting a field trial dog but rather a good family pet that will stay steady and bring birds to hand consistently. We are using Tom Dokkens book for basic obedience witch has already started and once that is done we will use Chris Akins video series for the rest of training.
Cost so far $1000 for pup and about $300 in books, videos , leashes , Vet and bumpers. We have not purchased a solid kennel or E collar.

 

[KurtR]

We as a family are in the process now. We have a Lab pup 8 weeks old and are DIY training. We are not wanting a field trial dog but rather a good family pet that will stay steady and bring birds to hand consistently. We are using Tom Dokkens book for basic obedience witch has already started and once that is done we will use Chris Akins video series for the rest of training.
Cost so far $1000 for pup and about $300 in books, videos , leashes , Vet and bumpers. We have not purchased a solid kennel or E collar.

Spend the 60 dollars on Freddy kings program . Him and Chris akin work together a lot. Akin runs all of Freddy’s dogs at the grand.

 

[TSAMP]

I personally stay away from "breeders". They are motivated to breed dogs and sale puppies. Find a hardcore amateur that hunts the way you do and buy a dog from him. I would be classified a "backyard breeder" especially considering that I just bred two pointers in my backyard yesterday! lol. I also hunt over 100 days a year in multiple states and compete in field trials. Find hardcore hunters and buy dogs from them, stay away from "breeders" IMO.

And dont buy a niche dog, buy a breed that is established and proven.

I'll have to disagree with this. Anyone with "left over" pups id be wary of. Of if they do not hunt. That tells me they may fit your above statement. Most reputable breeders have experience and it isn't their only job, just a passion. They have waiting lists for a reason and there is criteria you know was completed by the breeding stock to give you the best odds of a healthy quality companion. You also have a gentlemens agreement to not breed your dog typically.

The backyard breeders presumably such as yourself are marketing dogs for less and targeting the people who lack the patience to wait or the interest to research a good kennel/breeder. Or who want to breed themselves.

I dont know you personally so don't take this as a insult. Free country and all that, but again. I disagree.

 

[Cant hit em]

Spend the 60 dollars on Freddy kings program . Him and Chris akin work together a lot. Akin runs all of Freddy’s dogs at the grand.

Yup got the membership as well , lots of great info on there

 

[scott85]

I wish you the best of luck. Do your research, I went with a friend who breeds labs, my lab is almost a year old and she is only the second most well behaved dog right behind our boxer. I paid 2k for and got a $500 discount for her. To me she is worth every penny. I’m about to spend about another 5-8k on training because I want it done right and don’t want to do her and disservice because she is way smarter than I am.

 

[WRO]

The backyard breeders presumably such as yourself are marketing dogs for less and targeting the people who lack the patience to wait or the interest to research a good kennel/breeder. Or who want to breed themselves.

I dont know you personally so don't take this as a insult. Free country and all that, but again. I disagree.

If a backyard breeder does all the testing, I'm okay with it. One of the best dogs I've seen as of late was an ep bred by a hunting guides 2 best dogs.

That being said, I'm staying away from dogs without testing and titles in the pedigree..



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[IsThisHeaven]

Just an observation. I also live in an area where it's gonna be more likely just bc the lack of actually birds to hunt

You’re not wrong. Where I live we have wild birds. There are a percentage of guys who have dogs and solely use them for tests or trials, which is fine. When But be careful when they start telling you how to run dogs on wild birds.

 

[Squincher]

I've seen a few lately at the kennel I train at that were lacking natural ability pretty bad.

As we're seeing more color breeding and show insertion, I'd be tearing over that pedigree like crazy.

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This is definitely becoming a problem with GSP's and some other breeds that have become popular with non-hunters. One certainly needs to know how to read a pedigree. Also, don't buy unregistered pups, or from ladies who drive a Prius and give you a blank look when asked how many birds they have shot over the sire and dam.

 

[mporter012]

This is definitely becoming a problem with GSP's and some other breeds that have become popular with non-hunters. One certainly needs to know how to read a pedigree. Also, don't buy unregistered pups, or from ladies who drive a Prius and give you a blank look when asked how many birds they have shot over the sire and dam.

I agree. I bought mine from a craigslist ad and drove to kansas. The "breeder" had all the paperwork and the Dad was a master hunter with AKC, and that was registered. I didn't realize this at the time, but later realized that this "breeder" was pumping out dogs left and right.

 

[WRO]

I agree. I bought mine from a craigslist ad and drove to kansas. The "breeder" had all the paperwork and the Dad was a master hunter with AKC, and that was registered. I didn't realize this at the time, but later realized that this "breeder" was pumping out dogs left and right.

There's alot that don't.

This my 5 month old Gordon (yes she's an "off" breed) but I know her breeder and have hunted over her parents. He does 1-2 litters a year and puts way more work into genetics and research than most. I also know alot of field trials guys that have multiple litters a year. The commonality between those types of breeders is that they're looking to make the breeds better and are breeding for the best possible puppies. There's a huge difference between those breeders and guy who's just looking to make money.

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[WRO]

You’re not wrong. Where I live we have wild birds. There are a percentage of guys who have dogs and solely use them for tests or trials, which is fine. When But be careful when they start telling you how to run dogs on wild birds.

Do they train on wild birds? A lot of trial guys spend an inordinate amount of time training their dogs on wild birds.

A lot of the anti FT dog sentiment in the pointer world comes from the thought that they run to big. That used to be a big issue prior to the invention of the GPS collar. To win a field trial, a dog has to cover ground, find birds, and be biddable. Pretty much everything most bird hunters are looking for. You have a much higher chance of getting a dog with the right genetics to start with that breeding vs random.

 

[Squincher]

Most of my dogs have come from "backyard" breeders who had a litter because they had a dog good enough they wanted a pup out of them. Those people always breed to another dog they know to be good, and have the paperwork to prove it. It's pretty easy to tell with just a short conversation and look around if you are dealing with a bird hunter. You can get a line on these litters by talking to people at any local NAVHDA or shoot to retrieve event.

 

[IsThisHeaven]

Do they train on wild birds? A lot of trial guys spend an inordinate amount of time training their dogs on wild birds.

A lot of the anti FT dog sentiment in the pointer world comes from the thought that they run to big. That used to be a big issue prior to the invention of the GPS collar. To win a field trial, a dog has to cover ground, find birds, and be biddable. Pretty much everything most bird hunters are looking for. You have a much higher chance of getting a dog with the right genetics to start with that breeding vs random.

No they do not train on wild birds. I think there are some regional differences. I am sure where you are, and your experience, a lot of trial guys train on wild birds. I do not believe that is the case for trialers all over the country. I believe in certain areas of the country field trial dogs rarely if ever see a wild bird. In other areas of the country trial dogs see wild birds regularly. I think much of it depends on the wild birds available locally. In areas with prairie or ruffed grouse, wild bird field trials and training are common. Where I live pheasants are the most prevalent wild bird available.

And to be clear, I am not bashing field trial dogs nor am I anti FT. I understand the history of the rift between hunters and field trialers. I own a Pointer and Springer. Both come from field trial lines. My Pointer runs big and I like it for the reasons you point out. I will only buy dogs with out field trial lines, but the dogs must also hunt wild birds regularly.

Maybe I am reading too much into the intent of your post, and if that’s the case, please let me know. You’re tired of hearing hunters bash trial dogs for the reasons you point out. I am too. I am also tired of field trialers’ dismissal of those who do not trial and “only hunt.”

 

[KHNC]

You should definitely look into a registered GSP. They are usually very inexpensive. Less than 200.00 from most well established breeders. Also, they are a very calm, mild mannered dog. They wont run all over your house doing parkour , and they are super simple to house break.. At 4-5 months old, they stay right by your side without a leash and never try to leave the entire neighborhood while chasing a rabbit or a bird , or a leaf blowing. They wont ever scoop up a toad in their mouth, then spit it out and gag for 5 minutes, then go do it again. They hate water. Good thing about that is they will NEVER jump into your boat with muddy paws or run through your living room with muddy paws, while doing parkour. (repetitive-Parkour) . Vet bills arent much for these dogs either. Maybe 10-15 bucks per trip. They also wont try to sleep anywhere, in any position, especially on top of you while you are on the couch trying to watch fishing. After being house broken, they will never run to the door and stare at it, after doing parkour in your living room.


PS. this is all bullshit. These dogs are on crack! But i still love mine.

 

[Wags]

I purchased a pup last year from a great pedigree and she cost me 2K. I've got another 10 in her in training since then. Then add the cost of insurance and food and the costs add up quick. She's an absolute machine and will only continue to improve as she gets more experience. Now, she's the first dog I've ever spent that much for or had trained. The only reason I was even able to do this was because I unexpectedly came into the money. My previous dog I trained from scratch. She had 2 SH passes and was the best dog I've ever hunted over to date. I paid $750 for her. I will say that you will get out of your dog what you put into it. If you train to standard consistently then you will end up with a fine dog. If not, you'll have an expensive pet.

Here's Lucy at 9 months old...




Niko just before she passed...

 

[WRO]

No they do not train on wild birds. I think there are some regional differences. I am sure where you are, and your experience, a lot of trial guys train on wild birds. I do not believe that is the case for trialers all over the country. I believe in certain areas of the country field trial dogs rarely if ever see a wild bird. In other areas of the country trial dogs see wild birds regularly. I think much of it depends on the wild birds available locally. In areas with prairie or ruffed grouse, wild bird field trials and training are common. Where I live pheasants are the most prevalent wild bird available.

And to be clear, I am not bashing field trial dogs nor am I anti FT. I understand the history of the rift between hunters and field trialers. I own a Pointer and Springer. Both come from field trial lines. My Pointer runs big and I like it for the reasons you point out. I will only buy dogs with out field trial lines, but the dogs must also hunt wild birds regularly.

Maybe I am reading too much into the intent of your post, and if that’s the case, please let me know. You’re tired of hearing hunters bash trial dogs for the reasons you point out. I am too. I am also tired of field trialers’ dismissal of those who do not trial and “only hunt.”

There definitely are regional differences, one thing alot of very competitive trailers do is send their dogs to the Dakotas and Montana every Aug for training. (I'm sending my dogs to Montana in September for the month)

I feel sorry for the guys who don't live in wild birds country.


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[chukar_chaser]

I'll have to disagree with this. Anyone with "left over" pups id be wary of. Of if they do not hunt. That tells me they may fit your above statement. Most reputable breeders have experience and it isn't their only job, just a passion. They have waiting lists for a reason and there is criteria you know was completed by the breeding stock to give you the best odds of a healthy quality companion. You also have a gentlemens agreement to not breed your dog typically.

The backyard breeders presumably such as yourself are marketing dogs for less and targeting the people who lack the patience to wait or the interest to research a good kennel/breeder. Or who want to breed themselves.

I dont know you personally so don't take this as a insult. Free country and all that, but again. I disagree.

"Left Over Pups" hahaha. I have bred three litters in my life and sold them all in an instant. And they all went to hardcore wild bird hunters. This litter I bred now is already sold, just depends on how many she has.

Breeders for the most part are not dedicated hunters, they are "breeders". If you have 5-10 dogs there is no way you are getting that many dogs out in a given year to know what you have. Unless you hunt every day, which they don't. They are in it to sell dogs, and thats it.

A more expensive dog doesn't mean better. I target dedicated wild bird hunters as people to buy my dogs, and most of them are friends that I have had for years. They have hunted with my dogs season after season after season. And me same with their dogs. I own the male, and I also owned his dad, who won two Runner Up Championships on wild birds. The Region 9 Amatuer All Age Championship and the Region 9 Shooting Dog Championship. Both held in Idaho on wild birds. Both of those dogs have hunted all over the west, on different species, in different conditions and will go day after day after day. That is why I buy dogs from dedicated hardcore amatuer hunters and not breeders. Breeders don't hunt their dogs like I do, so how do I know it can?

 

[chukar_chaser]

If a backyard breeder does all the testing, I'm okay with it. One of the best dogs I've seen as of late was an ep bred by a hunting guides 2 best dogs.

That being said, I'm staying away from dogs without testing and titles in the pedigree..



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I have been in this game for 20+years. I travel all over the west every year hunting wild birds, and I hunted 5 different states last year. Buy a dog from someone who hunts and does the stuff you want to do. Ignore everything else. Titles mean nothing unless the actual male/female of the pups has a title, in good breeds tons of dogs have titles, so that doesnt really mean much. Stay away from niche breeds, get a solid proven breed.