Binos vs Scope at low light?

alabamahunt

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Why can I see better at low light through my 10x42 diamond back binos but not through my 3.5-10x44 Meopta MeoPro? Is this normal to be able to see better with binoculars vs a scope at last 10min of light? Should I spend the money on the high end binos or scope for counting points?

I’ve had 3 encounters with a group of bucks right at last light that I could not make out how many points they had. (Must be 8pt or better) I’m debating or getting a new scope or binos. My wife said “it makes no sense for us to sit out here all day if we cant shoot something when it comes out just because you have some cheap POS scope and binoculars.” She hasn’t shot a buck yet and after the same situation 3 different sits she’s not happy about it and proceeded to tell me to go spend $2,000-$3,000 on a new scope and she didn’t care how far I had to go to get it lol. I don’t want to do so honestly… would it be worth it?
 

KenLee

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$300 binoculars > $2000 scope out in the open at 40 minutes after sunset to see antlers. 2 eyes better than one deal. Also a 8x42 Binoc is better than 10x42.
$2800 nl pure binoculars vs $3000 scope, binoculars still win, but that 56mm Magnus with dot sure is nice. Popped one at 250 yards 50 minutes after sunset yesterday.
 
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alabamahunt

alabamahunt

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Thanks for the response. I’m ignorant as to why though. Why are $300 binos going to appear brighter than a $2000 scope. I could have easily made a good shot on the deer with the scope just couldn’t make out the antlers well.
 

KenLee

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Thanks for the response. I’m ignorant as to why though. Why are $300 binos going to appear brighter than a $2000 scope. I could have easily made a good shot on the deer with the scope just couldn’t make out the antlers well.
2 eyes sending info to the brain I suppose. Depth of field with both eyes too.
Oh, the fixed magnification is also brighter than variable, as there are less lenses for the light to travel through.
 

Jpsmith1

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I'd think that $1000 in binos will blow your mind.

I had the Diamondbacks and they're half decent binos, but I jumped up to Vipers (no, not $1000, I know) and the difference is striking.

Vipers or the Razor price point might solve your problem on a budget.

Also, are you using a tripod with your binos? Tripod is a game changer with 10s and up.
 
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My binoculars won’t hold a candle to any of my scopes. But they’re also entry level. I think it’d take pretty good optics, scope or binoculars, to count points at 150 yards at last light or first light. I’ve had a few instances where I could tell a deer was a buck, but much more than that and I couldn’t say for sure. This is using a leupold vx5. Not heard to many complaints on the glass itself. Good binoculars might have helped tho.
 

Kurts86

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Take 2-3k and spend half on each. Hand held binoculars and rifle scope quality are where you should spend your optics money regardless of where and how you hunt.

If you are always up against last light I’d get big ol 50mm binoculars and a 56mm scope of with moderate magnification to get the exit pupil size up. Larger Objective diameter and lower magnification can be cheaper short cut to offset lesser glass quality. Getting an exit pupil of up to 5-6mm can help during low light.

Ultimately glass quality will offset most low light issue with sufficient exit pupil size. There is no shortcut around good glass cost $$$$.
 
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You should be using binoculars to ID because you shouldn't be pointing a rifle at something that you're not intent on shooting... But with that said you still have to be able to ID which animal you're going to take if there's multiple to riflescope glass matters too.

You don't need to spend $2K+ on binos to ID within legal shooting light, but I certainly wouldn't discourage you because high end binos are amazing for more reasons that just being able to see in low light. If you've got the budget and don't mind EL's and NL's are amazing and you can glass for hours on end with no eye fatigue. There's plenty of binos in the $500 range that will do what you want though, the Leupold BX4's are phenomenal and the best bang for the $$ out there.

If you've got a $2000-$3000 budget I'd spend most of it upgrading your scope since it will cost a lot more for a scope with great glass, and then part of it upgrading your binos. You could drop $2000 on a scope and $500 on binos and do really well.
 

fwafwow

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I'd spend more on the binos and use them to count points. For me the scope need not be as capable in low light (at least to count points), as I try not to use my scope for that purpose. Also there are quite a few threads on RS about how scopes should be primarily an aiming device and that "glass" quality should be of secondary concern. Others disagree (somewhat vehemently).

Similar to what others have said, 8x will give you better results in low light than 10x. I swapped some 10x Zeiss (which were sweet) for 8.5x Swaros. I also have a pair of 6.5x Kowas for archery hunting.

If I had the greenlight for $2-3k in optics, I'd spend more on the binos - maybe 2x. You could probably even get by with money left over ($1500 on binos and $500 on a scope), especially if you look into (and like) the SWFA scopes.

@KenLee - that's pretty amazing. I have trouble (with any optics) seeing much after 30 minutes past sunset. Could be my old eyes.
 

fwafwow

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See the benefits of discussing optics on RS? @redneckbmxer24 and I gave you almost the exact opposite advice! :sneaky: I do agree completely though with avoiding pointing your rifle at things you aren't sure you will shoot, and that Swaro and other alpha glass is amazing.

Just to make it clear as mud - I'm a "buy once" sort of guy and I rarely do anything but move up in gear quality, but I'm in the process of swapping higher cost scopes (including a Swaro Z5 that has awesome glass) for ones that cost less. I don't ever see myself doing that with my binos. (Famous last words...)
 
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$2800 nl pure binoculars vs $3000 scope, binoculars still win, but that 56mm Magnus with dot sure is nice. Popped one at 250 yards 50 minutes after sunset yesterday.
Where you are, how much time after posted sunset do you have? Here it is 30 minutes.

Must be awesome glass as there’s never been a time that there was enough light to see a deer 50 minutes after sunset with any of my optics (SLC 10, SLC 15, STX 65, STX 95).
 

KenLee

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Where you are, how much time after posted sunset do you have? Here it is 30 minutes.

Must be awesome glass as there’s never been a time that there was enough light to see a deer 50 minutes after sunset with any of my optics (SLC 10, SLC 15, STX 65, STX 95).
South Carolina. Hour before sunrise and hour after sunset. 8x magnification on binoculars gets you more light vs 10x, in my experience
 
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Where you are, how much time after posted sunset do you have? Here it is 30 minutes.

Must be awesome glass as there’s never been a time that there was enough light to see a deer 50 minutes after sunset with any of my optics (SLC 10, SLC 15, STX 65, STX 95).

The issue is the exaggeration or blatant lying on here, it's like nothing I've ever seen on any other outdoor forum. I'm currently less than 10 miles west from SC's NW border where he is and I can tell you 100% for a fact that there was not enough light to see to take an animal at 250 yards almost an hour after sunset last night using any day optic unless the ****** was standing in the middle of a lit parking lot. It was a clear night but almost no moon right now. I'll gladly take a pic at 6:14 tonight 50 minutes after sunset and post it.
 

KenLee

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The issue is the exaggeration or blatant lying on here, it's like nothing I've ever seen on any other outdoor forum. I'm currently less than 10 miles west from SC's NW border where he is and I can tell you 100% for a fact that there was not enough light to see to take an animal at 250 yards almost an hour after sunset last night using any day optic unless the ****** was standing in the middle of a lit parking lot. It was a clear night but almost no moon right now. I'll gladly take a pic at 6:14 tonight 50 minutes after sunset and post it.
Buck was in a food plot at the middle of wide width poweline next to Fairforest Creek. 605pm yesterday.
Leica magnus 2.5-10x56 with illuminated dot. Watched the buck through 8-42 nl pure binoculars a couple minutes before I shot.
Sunset here was 515pm last time I looked before just now. Today it says 518pm.
So it was 47 or 48 minutes after sunset, as sunset gradually gets later time of year.
I really could care less if you believe me.
 
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Buck was in a food plot at the middle of wide width poweline next to Fairforest Creek. 605pm yesterday.
Leica magnus 2.5-10x56 with illuminated dot. Watched the buck through 8-42 nl pure binoculars a couple minutes before I shot.
Sunset here was 515pm last time I looked before just now. Today it says 518pm.
So it was 47 or 48 minutes after sunset, as sunset gradually gets later time of year.
I really could care less if you believe me.
Unless you had a NV or thermal clip on in front of that day optic, and PVS-14's mounted on the oculars of your NL's, then no I don't believe you saw and shot a deer when it was pitch black outside. It was literally black last night. I was out 20 minutes after sunset star gazing for over an hour.
 

KenLee

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Unless you had a NV or thermal clip on in front of that day optic, and PVS-14's mounted on the oculars of your NL's, then no I don't believe you saw and shot a deer when it was pitch black outside. It was literally black last night. I was out 20 minutes after sunset star gazing for over an hour.
I've never used a thermal or night vision.
Don't have a clue what a PVS-14 is.
Actually sitting out in low light conditions vs having background light makes a big difference in what you see.
Gaining 30 or more minutes through a good optic vs the naked eye is no big feat.
 
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I've never used a thermal or night vision.
Don't have a clue what a PVS-14 is.
Actually sitting out in low light conditions vs having background light makes a big difference in what you see.
Gaining 30 or more minutes through a good optic vs the naked eye is no big feat.

Then I'd say your watch is running a tad bit fast. I'm very well versed in high end riflescopes as well as NV and thermal as well as using them in no light and low light and what you're claiming is not possible. It's even pretty far fetched with a full moon but if you have excellent glass, excellent vision, and a dark blob is good enough for you to pull the trigger, then sure I could see it on a full moon night, but not last night.
 
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There is nothing wrong whatsoever with pointing a rifle at something you know to be a deer to use the scope to discern details about it.

"Never point your gun at anything you don't intend to shoot" is literally the first rule of gun safety and covered in every hunter safety and basic firearm course. If you're looking at an animal through a scope to determine if you want to shoot it or not then you have broken this rule. There's a lot of irresponsible people in the woods though, look how many hunters have been shot by other hunters who thought they were a deer... They didn't think there was an issue pointing their gun at something they clearly thought was a game animal either.
 
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