Big Whitetails, Rokslide Style by Les Welch

[robby denning]

Hey all, I'm not a whitetail hunter but really like this thread. I've learned a lot about WI deer management and can tell there are some very knowledgeable hunters on here

I also have to commend you with differing opinions in how you present facts without all the attacks and emotion... I deleting a thread on another forum right now because some posters just can't debate civilly- thanks

 

[AKMAN]

Old thread, but near and dear to me (no pun intended).
I'm with Schleppy; when I see wolf tracks in the snow on the way to the stand, I have to assume the intelligent bucks saw the wolves. Wisco DNR biologists in our area (Washburn & Douglas county) came to town saying that wolves eat mice, voles, and shrews.
Apparently that's where the wolves the 5 pounds of meat per day required to stay reproductively (is that a word?) viable...
Also, black bear tags used to be over the counter items. No longer.
This year (summer 2016) I have as many black bear on the trail cams as I do bucks. Sad state to be in.

 

[les welch]

I'm not sure, but it seems like Schleppy misinterpreted my post. I'm not implying that baiting is the reason for low deer numbers. That's definitely not it. I'm stating the fact that baiters alter deer movement extremely bad, and when there are very few deer that makes it very difficult. Baiting is the number one hardest thing against a non-baiting Hunter in the Northwoods.


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[Schleppy]

I'm not sure, but it seems like Schleppy misinterpreted my post. I'm not implying that baiting is the reason for low deer numbers. That's definitely not it. I'm stating the fact that baiters alter deer movement extremely bad, and when there are very few deer that makes it very difficult. Baiting is the number one hardest thing against a non-baiting Hunter in the Northwoods.


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I didn't misinterpret it Les, I just made an observation on it because I feel that it isn't entirely correct or actually based on "fact". I've heard this argument many many times, and its just not possible to verify and is therefore an opinion not a fact. Deer are browsers and spend a great deal of their time walking through the woods doing such, a bait pile does not change that. I will agree that a bait pile can alter deer movement but it does not completely shut it down. People that make this argument assume or imply that once a deer finds the bait pile they use it as a sole source of nutrition and spend 100% of their time hanging around the pile waiting to be fed, and that simply is not true. A lot of things alter deer movement and can screw up your hunt. Food plots are popping up everywhere, are the food plot builders considered baiters? If I own 40 acres of mature pine plantation and my neighbor owns a nice hardwood ridge where the deer feed on acorns and browse he will have a great deal of the deer activity. Now, I build an acre food plot with clover and chicory and I will alter the deer movement. Am I wrong in doing so? Can a deer catch cwd from nibbling in a food plot?
My argument is that hunting has changed in the last 30 years and that there are a lot more variables at work than just "baiters". Also, baiters are still deer hunters buying a license and enjoying the hunt. When we line up against the baiters we are fighting ourselves and that doesn't help our sport. My step dad was a baiter up in the northwoods and shot one decent buck in 25 years of hunting. That's bow and gun season on private property. And they hunt hard. They didn't see many big bucks but had deer sightings. He quit hunting 3 years ago because they would see zero deer even with bait. To him the wolves are to blame. Saying that baiting is the number one hardest thing against non-baiters is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, I just happen to disagree. Hey elk season starts tomorrow. Go to Colorado and stop thinking about deer.

 

[les welch]

Ty, I will be in the West shortly, that said I never stop thinking about deer.

Nowhere did I see where anyone said deer quit moving, quit browsing, or rely on bait piles for a sole source of nutrition. What I am saying, with 100% certainty, that in the Northern Wisconsin deer herds baiting has the biggest impact on deer movement. I've seen if for years. Typical deer movement between acorn flats, maple groves, clearcuts, cut lines, swamp edges. Then boom deer gone, or nocturnal. Why?? Someone on a four wheeler drives around a gate, or through the woods with their 4 wheelers. Chainsaws clearing shooting lanes. After dark those deer find the bait piles....wow, they are refreshed every day, or every few days. Deer realizes he doesn't have to travel as much when there is a constant food source. Doesn't have to expose himself in the daylight because he knows after dark he can just get up and mosey a little ways to the food table. Big bucks don't get big by being dumb. They know the sound of 4 wheelers, chainsaws, smell of gas, and that a pile of food in the woods just isn't natural. Yep, they'll come in after dark a majority of the time. Wolves, bears, and coyotes do not make deer nocturnal....the presence of people, unnatural sounds, odors, and the like make deer nocturnal.

I don't like baiting. I think it should be made illegal. The negatives WAY outweigh the positives. HOWEVER I don't knock anyone for baiting, I don't mess with anyone's baits. In fact I'll pull up and leave the area if I know someone is baiting, or starts baiting an area I hunt. I want to hunt the deer and when someone is baiting in the vicinity I can't truly hunt a big deer.


I'm not going to turn this thread into an argument about the legality, ethics, or opinions of baiting. We sure can start another thread about it if anyone wants to.