Big Big Bucks! with Jason Carter

[mxgust]

I was at work one day and a guy was there complaining about how deer were being managed. I asked him would you rather A) get two tags in 40 years but your guaranteed a 200 inch deer on those two tags or B) get a tag every year for 40 years and kill two 200 inch deer? He said option A.

That was the moment that I realized that some people don’t want to hunt. They want to hunt for a day or two and pay to get a deer mounted to show off to their buddies.

And the thing about that guarantee is it is never a guarantee and by the time his turn is up he won’t know how to hunt deer. How many people eat those glory tags every year or end up just not killing a monster? That’s just not how I think lol

 

[wyobigbuckhunter]

Good conversation guys, thanks for chiming in. I’m not even saying I’m right, I just know if we keep cutting tags and cutting tags pretty soon we’ll just be sitting on the sidelines. Wondering what happened. Almost there in some units.

Great podcast guys! I respect the heck out of Jason, but have disagreed on his stance of management for a while. I tend to take the side of Robby. Believe me, I'm all for managing the resource so that it is around for generations to come. If that means sitting out once in a while so be it. However, I think that limiting opportunity through draws should be the LAST thing that agencies employ after all other options have been exhausted. In pure transparency, my thought processes stem solely from my experience in Wyoming's Salt River and Wyoming ranges. I understand that each range and state is different and should be managed individually. However, it is important to extrapolate and learn from experience gained in the past throughout all the intermountain west.

For example, we have evidence in Wyoming that oversaturation of deer especially bucks through the summer range is NOT a good thing. This was evident with the low fat content of the deer going into the winter of '16-17 despite multiple benign winters and wet springs. This set up the perfect catalyst to the winter kill of that year. Another example, before this winter ('22-23), it was hypothesized that there were 44 bucks per 100 does in Region G. From what I've researched, a mule deer population thrives when buck to doe ratios are around 30. This means that the bucks were competing and taking resources from the does that are the true builders of the population. Why wouldn't we want to utilize the resource and harvest more bucks on the landscape, if this could help the population as a whole? Also, from a humanistic perspective, it seems like such a waste if bucks winter kill and we could have utilized the resource in some way.

I am hopeful that we can be creative and find ways to assist management of the population without limiting opportunity. I've got some ideas as everyone does, but this is multi faceted and change is difficult not only for wildlife agencies but sportsman alike. I'm just afraid that once opportunity is gone, there will be no way to get it back and it will have devastating effects for generations as others have said.

 

[robby denning]

Thank you for the listen and the well thought out comments.

And amazing they’re from a wyoming resident (I assume?)

 

[S.Clancy]

Him being in Utah you'd think he would mention the hundreds of thousands of acres (maybe over a million, idk) of winter range that have been developed...instead of complaining about age glass and big (his version of big is gigantic) bucks. There is plenty of science that shows that better habitat makes bigger deer.

 

[Westhunt]

As a state wildlife agency employee, this podcast was very frustrating to listen to. The argument that wildlife management is all about the "budget" is a pathetic cop-out argument by people who don't want to acknowledge that there is a much more complex issue at hand. Quite frankly, it does more harm than good. These types of statements turn hunters against wildlife agencies when the Wildlife agency is doing everything it can to help. You may disagree with the direction the agency goes; but to say the decision is out of malice is not only wrong it's destructive. Robby did a great job trying to educate Jason, but Jason is too ignorant of the facts of life to learn anything. If you don't believe me, then get involved and start working with your local biologist/warden. You'll quickly realize that wildlife management is way more complex than it seems to be on the surface.

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[S.Clancy]

As a state wildlife agency employee, this podcast was very frustrating to listen to. The argument that wildlife management is all about the "budget" is a pathetic cop-out argument by people who don't want to acknowledge that there is a much more complex issue at hand. Quite frankly, it does more harm than good. These types of statements turn hunters against wildlife agencies when the Wildlife agency is doing everything it can to help. You may disagree with the direction the agency goes; but to say the decision is out of malice is not only wrong it's destructive. Robby did a great job trying to educate Jason, but Jason is too ignorant of the facts of life to learn anything. If you don't believe me, then get involved and start working with your local biologist/warden. You'll quickly realize that wildlife management is way more complex than it seems to be on the surface.

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This. Our state agency (FWP) might not be perfect, but it seems the loudest complainers are self serving idiots who can't see the forest for the trees or even think about unintended consequences.

 

[Westhunt]

This. Our state agency (FWP) might not be perfect, but it seems the loudest complainers are self serving idiots who can't see the forest for the trees or even think about unintended consequences.

Amen! I'm a warden for Utah, I've had many long conversations on the mountain with hunters that start out with complaining. I explain the intricacies and challenges of wildlife management and answer all their questions. They always walk away feeling better, they may not always agree with the DWR decisions (neither do I), but they at least realize that there are tough decisions to make and the DWR is always trying to do what is best for the wildlife and sportsman.

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[Grundy53]

Great episode

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[Pacific_Fork]

About the only thing I would agree with Jason in this pod was we need to raise the price of deer tags for many reasons. $20 is what most people spend in a work week on coffee. I dont know what the cost should be exactly, but I'd start around $50. We need to compete with NR sales.

Other than that it was an interesting conversation. Not that I was expecting someone to admit that their services are contributing to the loss of opportunity and overcrowded wild places but it was cringe knowing they both abosulutly know in their hearts its an issue. He almost said it at one point then froze up haha. The epic crew puts out unit specifics to the masses in every state but has no issues talking about the detriment of other technology, which is also a factor. I am starting to get real sick and tired of this model of selling off information related to killing, its not conservation.

Also agree with the warden's comments.